 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: karlbonner82
Date: 2010-05-01 10:50
This is directed at those who play outside (whether in a park or a marching band) on more than a rare occasion. How good is your outdoor (plastic) horn, and what do you typically use for a reed and mouthpiece?
Given that you're required to use plastic (not quite required literally but close enough), I'd think advanced amateurs and professionals would all want the "cream of the crop" when it comes to plastic models. It's already a timbral compromise to go from wood to plastic; there's no reason to make matters worse by using a mediocre plastic unit.
And if I were an expert with a top-line wood clarinet, I'd make utmost sure that I used superb reeds and mouthpieces for the plastic one.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-05-01 11:04
I play an old Yamaha YCL-24 for outdoor work - it's pretty much a plastic equivalent of a Selmer Series 9, though hasn't got the same depth of tone.
The workmanship and build quality on this clarinet puts a LOT of the current top models to shame as it's probably one of the best built instruments I've ever seen - and it's only an entry level instrument.
I use a Vandoren B46 with this for risk of any harm that could happen to my A1 crystal.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2010-05-01 11:25
I use a Jupiter JCL-631-11 with a Ridenour barrel and a B40 Lyra mouthpiece. I am very impressed with the build quality of this Chinese made instrument and it plays remarkably in tune with itself. It even has a correctly made thumbrest. As far as projection of sound is concerned it seems loud enough to me. I've played in two outdoor weddings, one of them in a sweltering Australian heatwave and the spread-out wedding guests apparently had no trouble hearing me. If this is the type of quality that is beginning to come out of China then other makers had better lift there game as far as 'beginner' Clarinets are concerned. A real 'knock-about' instrument.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2010-05-01 11:29)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-05-01 12:48
The thing with companies such as Yamaha and Jupiter is they have strict quality control no matter where their various factories are - they need that to retain their credibility.
Though moving production over to China is still a sore topic in any industry.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-05-01 13:35
My main outdoor instrument is a wooden Vito VSP, with a Fobes Debut mouthpiece.
But in my experience, more important than timbre and mellowness is projection and, yes, sheer volume. An outdoor gig with no band shell and somesuch provides only poor acoustics at best (and more often than not a considerable amount of ambient noise), and it takes only a soft breeze to literally blow half the sound away. A voluminous sound does not exempt you from blending in with your section, however.
My backup instrument is a plastic Bundy. I use it when the weather is really ghastly, last time for a 1h parade in November, in heavy downpour. I refuse to use instrument weather shields and the like. Can't play with these contraptions. In freezing temperatures I take my metal clarinet as the body and the kework expands and contracts at comparable rates, else you risk binding keywork.
I've tried a number of wooden, plastic and metal clarinets for "field work", and I can't hear much of a timbral difference in those typical outdoors venues. Long as it plays in tune with the rest of the band and projects well I don't really care. Can't beat an old Bundy or Vito price-wise, and they're sturdy and built to last.
Do choose a mouthpiece that makes the most of what's behind or in front of it. When marching (especially uphill) you'd want something with a low resistance, something that requires very little air.
--
Ben
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Author: William
Date: 2010-05-01 14:13
I use my pro clarinets for all of my gigs--orchestral or concert band, indoors or out. I do not play in groups that would consider playing under inclement weather conditions. However, in my "wilder" marching band alumni days, I used a vintage Noblet metal clarinet, K-10 mpc and Legere reed. Nowdays, that clarinet hangs on the wall of our downstairs wet bar and I do not march.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-05-01 14:38
I don't do marching at all. When I play outdoor concerts, I use the same instrument I use indoors: my Ridenour 576 BC with a Grabner K13 or a Greg Smith Chedeville 1++. Reeds are Rico Reserve 3.5. Waiting on some trials from Forsetone to arrive next week.
Jeff
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2010-05-01 15:09
I don't play outdoors often, but I would use my Ridenour Lyrique or my first Buffet R13.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-05-01 16:15
I find my wood clarinets sound even better outside than they do inside, especially the larger bore vintage horns. Alto's too, Mark!!
All this "plastic clarinets for outdoors play" is mostly just a pathetic excuse to keep your old Bundy or Vito around, even though you probably don't play 'em much anymore.
What is everybody so worried about with a 'woody' outdoors? The bore is damp anyway after a little play, a few raindrops aren't going to hurt grenadilla, although you may have to lightly re-oil if you use the quick-disappearing kind. Outdoor rainy weather really probably calls more for synthetic pads, than any single "type" of clarinet. Silver plated metal clarinets really 'shine' outdoors too!
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-05-01 16:45
I'm precious about my old Selmers and want them to be as comfortable as I am in any given location - if I'm not happy being out in the rain I don't think my wooden Selmers will be likewise.
At least my plastic Yamaha has stainless steel springs and screws (I also have a plastic Selmer Signet oboe for outdoor use), so if these get wet it's not nearly as much as a worry than getting silver steel screws and blued steel springs wet.
I'm also precious about my saxes and will never play my best ones outdoors - my bari got wet the other year after playing outside and I wasn't happy in the slightest.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DixieSax
Date: 2010-05-01 17:16
I have a vintage Leblanc LL special that I use for jazz playing, and when I play outdoor jobs. Marching has long been a thing of the past for me, and the old Leblanc has a nice full sound that carries well in an outdoor performance.
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Author: clarinetcase
Date: 2010-05-01 17:24
I play many outdoor concerts in the summer and a few indoors in places with no AC (historic). For both I use my Ridenour Lyrique with a Grabner K14 mouthpiece and Rico Reserve reeds.
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Author: jacoblikesmusic
Date: 2010-05-01 17:57
Outside I usually use my old plastic Yamaha, although I am considering getting an R13 Greenline.
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2010-05-01 19:21
ridenour lyrique , vandoren B45 , reeds numberr 3
Playing ouside in cold weather can really cause problems to a clarinet that was already stable for years.
gr
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-05-01 21:08
> All this "plastic clarinets for outdoors play" is mostly just a pathetic excuse
> to keep your old Bundy or Vito around, even though you probably don't play
> 'em much anymore.
It's not so much the outdoorness but rather the risk of stumbling and dropping your valuable woody when marching.
I've seen instruments losing their value rather rapidly and terminally this way.
--
Ben
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Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2010-05-01 22:40
My outdoor setup is:
Vito V40 clarinet
Vandoren M15 mouthpiece
Legere Signature 4 reed
Rovner light ligature
Works fine. Plenty of volume and projection, good tone and intonation. No complaints from the conductor or audience yet.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2010-05-02 01:15
It has been over forty years since I was marching in high school and college. At that point there wasn't much option other than metal. I knew virtually nobody who owned more than one instrument (of the same kind). In cold weather we did our best to keep them reasonably warm. In wet weather, we took the time to do necessary maintenance immediately when we were done (carefully and completely dry the instrument and lightly oil the key work and springs). I have no doubt problems can occur, but I, personally, have never known anyone who has had any.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2010-05-02 04:23
>required to use plastic
nonsense.
I use an E11 outside, unless the temp at concert time is close to 3 digits, then I use an an old Vito Resotone that I rebuilt.
Both work well.
If its coolish, say under 80, I use my R13.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: karlbonner82
Date: 2010-05-02 10:05
RE plastic "nonsense." I sure as heck am not going to take a wood clarinet with me to the park or the street corner or the Saturday Market! It's not just weather to be concerned about, it's the threat of theft as well.
Perhaps I should re-phrase the question: For those of you who use a plastic horn outdoors or in marching bands, how high is the quality of that instrument?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-05-02 11:10
Very high quality (these earlier Yamahas are flawless in their construction) - and I overhauled it paying the same attention to detail (ie. cork pads almost throughout and leather for the four large pad cups) to make it play equally as good as my others. Photo of the forked Eb/Bb mechanism I fitted to it:
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/galleryclar/Keywork/CP2/09.jpg
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-05-03 00:35
Buffet R13 Greenline.
I agree with the statement that wood is fine outdoors to a point. If the weather is colder, I would not want to risk the probability of cracking (say anything below 60 fahrenheit). I even use my wooden mouthpiece outside (ebony Pomarico 1L).
As far as falling hazards go, I doubt there is ANY clarinet tenon that could withstand a hard enough fall - especially my Greenline!! So the secret is to NOT FALL!!!
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-05-03 06:37
> As far as falling hazards go, I doubt there is ANY clarinet tenon that could
> withstand a hard enough fall - especially my Greenline!! So the secret is to
> NOT FALL!!!
You're right, of course. But while a thusly damaged Vito is not the end of the world, it means very serious money for more valuable brands and models, and many in here have at least one instruments they consider "irreplaceable".
--
Ben
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Author: RoBass
Date: 2010-05-03 07:00
I play outdoor the same ebonite models as I do inddor ;-) Only the wooden horns must stay at home. MPC and reed don't differ, it's the same, to play it in a cold/humid room or out in the fields.
There's no diference in use, why should be a difference in material?
kindly
Roman
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2010-05-03 07:51
As is common knowledge, various plastics were used for cheap and often nasty Clarinets, and still are, but it is of course possible to make high grade clarinets out of these materials. Yamaha have been doing it for some time and now the Jupiter brand has arrived on the scene and even their 'student' grade instrument is very well crafted. It is amazing just how good a well made plastic clarinet can sound. It is not an inferior sound to wood or ebonite, just different except a plastic instrument may not project as well as wood or ebonite, It has all to do with quality. Plastic and ebonite clarinets make excellent outdoor 'knock-about instruments'
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2010-05-03 07:59)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-05-03 08:58
At least where a plastic instrument is concerned, if the middle tenon does break it's far less of a worry than if it was an older and cherished wooden clarinet that's not easily replaceable.
I'd rather my plastic Yamaha took the bullet rather than my old Selmers as I know I'd either be able to fix or replace it without too much hassle - most likely buy one off eBay that's in disrepair (but structurally sound) and scavenge it for parts.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: RoBass
Date: 2010-05-03 11:53
Plastic is NOT the same as ebonite! The one is made from resin plastics like ABS, (poly)acrylic, polystyrol a.s.o. But ebonite is made from rubber and shows properties different completely from hard plastics.
The second hint: give a cheaper plastic pipe or CSO to a pro in clarinet mechanics. You'll wonder about the result of his "finish" ;-) Most of the CSOs only are misadjusted and drilled not very well. A clarinet maker can refit and tune it to a medium range level at most.
I would prefer ebonite models due to the warm sound and stable dimensions (both near to the wood). I know some models made from plastic and sounding better than a wooden horn...
kindly
Roman
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-05-03 11:56
>> At least where a plastic instrument is concerned, if the middle tenon does break it's far less of a worry than if it was an older and cherished wooden clarinet that's not easily replaceable.
>>
Yes. And plastic clarinets do break when kids drop them through the bleachers onto concrete. I've seen plenty of these lastic Humpty Dumpties at yard sales. They'd cost more to repair than they're worth. I don't even buy them as "organ donors," because the excellent local repairman and dealer in used instruments at Presto Brass & Woodwinds told me never to bring him plastic clarinets even in good condition: He gets more than he needs for next to nothing.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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