 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: susannah
Date: 2010-05-02 10:36
Hello, sorry to inflict a slightly un-clarinet-related question on you all. I'm starting Graduate Study in the US this year, and need to be able to use the fixed do system. I've only ever used moveable do, and by searching on the internet it doesn't seem clear whether accidentals have different syllables or not. For example, is F# fa or fi or something else entirely? If anyone with experience in how the fixed do system is taught in the US could offer some advice that would be great!
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Author: susannah
Date: 2010-05-02 10:53
In the moveable D system (I learnt the Kodaly system), Do is the tonic note. So whatever key the piece is in, you make that Do and go from there. In a minor key your tonic note is La. Accidentals change the syllable. It makes sight singing and relative pitch very intuitive as the intervals are always the same. It's more complicated when it comes to modulations, but a great system IMO.
Now, can you help me? 
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2010-05-02 12:22
I'm not a solfege expert, and when I was in college my professors wanted us to use scale numbers instead.
Here's a link to a good Wikipedia article about the subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solf%C3%A8ge
I would contact the graduate school. In traditional fixed Do systems, chromatic variants are not used. However, there is another version that does use these variants.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2010-05-02 12:43
When I did fixed Do in school there were no chromatic syllable variations in the system we used.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-05-02 13:36
As a college music student I learned a "movable do" solfege system (or rather was forced to superimpose it over the sense of relative pitch I came with from high school). But many of the conductors I've played for, when they sing passages by way of demonstration, use fixed do and I can't remember any of them using any kind of chromatic alterations. The Curtis Institute is here in Philadelphia, and students from there always seem to use the fixed system. They don't seem to use chromatics, either. The note B, incidentally, is always "si," not "ti" as generally taught in Kodaly.
This subject has always intrigued me. Not having been taught to use a "fixed" do system, I've never been really sure what its purpose is. Why are the syllables more useful than letter names (or numbers, for that matter)? Is it only a question of standardizing across languages, since the letters aren't pronounced the same way in each country and numbers are different from one language to another? I think I remember that Guido d'Arezzo is credited with having invented the solfege syllables (I've never researched it to see if the claim is truth or legend). Was it only later that musicians thought to identify pitches by letter names and the syllables simply have historical tradition supporting them? Or do users find that the syllables provide some musical benefit?
Karl
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2010-05-02 16:14
There are 2 ways to learn fixed Do. In one way the accidentals all have different names like Fi for f-sharp. This is very cumbersome and confusing especially for little kids. In the other way all F's are FA whether they are sharp , flat, double-sharp, etc. You then use "sensibilité" to sing the correct pitch. This is the way Nadia Boulenger taught and seems to be the more popular method. If there is a solfege expert here please correct any misconceptions I may have.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-05-02 17:13
Well, to partially answer my own question, Guido's syllables were taken from the initial syllables of each of the first six musical phrases of the first stanza of the hymn Ut queant laxis. (Presumably the first syllable was then ut which is still used by French musicians in preference to do).
A quick Google search reminds me (it seems as though I studied all of this in another lifetime - it's been so many years since) that his treatise Micrologus (early 11th century) introduced, among other things, staff notation and the syllables to identify each scale degree. So the syllables, I would assume, predate any other methods - letters or numbers - of naming the notes of the diatonic scale.
My basic question still stands - is there some reason other than tradition and, perhaps, internationalization, why major music schools still seem to insist on using these syllables to identify specific notes ("fixed" do) which have no intrinsic meaning (their connection to Ut queant is, I'm certain, lost on most modern music students)?
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-05-02 18:01
When I went to conservatory, many years ago, we used the fix do, C was always do, so it was really quite easy since the same note always has the same name, we never had to worry if the music changed key without realizing it. We did not use a different name or add on for sharps or flats. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: concertmaster3
Date: 2010-05-02 18:59
The school I attended for my Bachelors and Masters uses fixed do in Aural Skills training, but we did use Do Sharp, Mi Flat, etc., and it seemed to work for us.
The school that I'm now teaching at uses movable chromatic solfege, so there's Do, Di, Re, Ri, Mi, Fa, Fi, etc., but Do is always tonic, not C. I understand it (even though I don't teach ear training or theory at the school), but many of the students have a hard time grasping the concept, but then again this isn't a music conservatory.
I myself do prefer fixed Do, for the same reasons ESP said, you don't have to worry about key changes to change syllables, and there's that gray area where a key is changing and has changed that you don't get confused about. In addition to the fact that C is always Do, no matter what key I may be in. I personally would be in favor of fixed chromatic solfege.
My school actually used solfege for clef reading also, and with the book we used, we learned a lot of skipping within the staffs rather than just melodic tunes.
Ron Ford
Woodwind Specialist
Performer/Teacher/Arranger
http://www.RonFordMusic.com
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Author: Pete
Date: 2010-05-13 20:58
I find using a fixed doe system is invaluable for memorizing and sight singing. Especially when having to sight transpose. It also helps to keep a pitch center in my mind for tuning.
However, I use a system that I thought of about 20 years ago that makes much more sense than the traditional fixed doe system. With this system you have a syllable that directly matches the note name.
For natural notes, I use the letter name. C-D-E-F-G-A-B
For sharps, I add an ah to the note name. Chromatically going up you would have:
C-Cah (pronounced Sah)-D-Dah-E-Lah-F-Fah-G-Gah(pronounced Jah)-A-Ah-B-Bah-C. As you can see, Lah and F, Bah and C are en-harmonics.
For flats, I add doe to the note name. Chromatically going down you would have:
C-Coe(pronounced Soe)-B-Boe-A-0h-G-Goe(pronounced Joe)-F-Foe-E-Low-D-Doe-C. Again, note your en-harmonics.
Sight signing in college would have been tons easier had I been using this system way back then.
I hope this helps you out.
Pete
Emerson Musical Instrument Repair
North East Wisconsin Band Instrument Co.
ToneLure Tone Enhancement
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Author: Adrianna
Date: 2010-05-13 21:20
Hello,
I believe the fixed 'do' system, keeps do as middle 'c'. Therefore, you use the different chromatic names for the solfege scale, as such:
Do, di/ra, re, ri/me, mi, fa, fi/se, so, si/le, la, li/te, ti, Do
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2010-05-13 23:01
Some of this reminds me of the written system used in the Greek Orthodox Church's Byzantine Chant method. Whatever note you start on, the notes in ascending order (depending on the mode you're in) are called:
"ni, pa, vou, ga, di, ke, zo, ni."
At the beginning of the hymn, the mode is named, so the singer will know which mode he is in (ie what the scale is).
And the written symbols used tell the "psaltis" (chanter) the metric value of the note, and also whether it goes up or down and by how much. It's an interesting system.
John
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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