 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: schylarker
Date: 2010-04-27 01:02
what is the difference between buffet e 11 and c 12?
what is the difference between silver and nikel keys? does it make any differences other than appearence?
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Author: schylarker
Date: 2010-04-27 01:20
do c12 even exist or am i mistaken for c13? my friend claims its one level higher than e11
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-04-27 02:09
The C-12 is French made and the E-11 is German and made in the Schreiber factory. Here's a link showing a C-12.. http://www.clarinuts.com/clarinuts/pages/C793.asp
Silver plating is more expensive than nickel plating. Nickel plating is slicker feeling when new, and in my experience doesn't wear as well as silver.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-04-27 02:19
Current E11 models are being made in France. They actually carry the designation: E11-France.
Jeff
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-04-27 04:31
Theoretically, nickel plating should wear better than silver, but silver is more often applied quite thick on high-end clarinets, and wears very well indeed. Nickel, on the other hand is often thinly applied, over questionable underplating, and so may wear, chip and peel more than silver.
Both nickel and silver should give good service if well done, but I've got to admit silver 'feels' better to me also.
I'll let the Buffet aficionados answer the first question, but the E-11's, both German and French, and the C-12 'International'?? (I thought they were made in Germany also) all seem to sell for similar amounts on 'the auction site', maybe the C-12 going for a little more.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-04-27 11:08
The most useful silver vs. nickel debate to me concerns technical action. If you are more comfortable sliding on the left and right paddle keys (and to some extent the sidekeys as well) with a slippery feeling key, than you would prefer nickel (or even gold). There are some professionals that seek out nickel keys for this reason.
If on the other hand you prefer sliding from key to key with a bit of tackiness to key which provides a somewhat more grounded feel, than silver is the way to go.
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: RAB
Date: 2010-04-27 12:11
The E-11's are indeed made in France now.
The plating on the keys and post seem to make the biggest difference concerning how the keys "feel" under your fingers. Compare the everyday ,nickle plated, silverware at home to the special occasion ,silver plated, silverware and you will understand better.
Some people's body chemistry eat through nickle plating while others eat through silver. Also silver seems to "grip" better if your fingers get wet with perspiration.
Then some players are allergenic to different metals and that would influence which type of plating they prefer.
I have had some very fine player who say they can feel the vibration better with a certain plating. I can't myself, but that is me.
Hope this helps with understanding the plating issues.
You can always go to the Buffet site and do some research on different models also.
Rodney Berry
Repair Dept
Muncy Winds Music Company
Boone, N.C.
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Author: RoBass
Date: 2010-04-27 13:06
The only real sense to use the one or other plating is, if you're allergic against nickel.
The silver comes dark quickly and in sulfuric environment (a coal/wood oven heater inside the house is sufficient for darkening already;-), but it's better to polish silver than nickel. Nickel is very resistant against polishing procedures (could not be polished chemically), and as stated above - it's thinner coated mostly.
Cheaper offering clarinet manufacturers use nickel for coating often, because it's application is easier (technological process) and cheaper instead of the silver. But wasted silver platings could be repaired easy and cheap - nickel not ;-)
I use both systems with my large collecion of horns, and I can't accomplish any difference in useability. Well polished silver is smooth and slippery like nickel, and well serviced silver ist darken as less as nickel too. There's no necessary to choice the one or the other - except the allergy potential...
kindly
Roman
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-04-27 17:55
Jeff, I know about current E-11s. I was assuming he was talking about older used clarinets. The two models of E-11 are now made in France.
I've been talking to repair techs around the country, and there seems to be some differences in the two models of E-11s made in France. Here is a quote from a tech in Tx about the instruments they've gotten in for this upcoming rental season....."I did find out that the difference in the two models of E11 is wood selection--the silver plated version having more select undyed wood--and key work. The nickel plated keys are made in China and fitted in France. The silver plated keys are made in France. There's no adjustable thumb rest on the nickel plated model. Time will tell if the Chinese keys wear well over the long term; based on other experience, I'm not overly optimistic."
We still have a pretty good stock of last years E-11s, and we may not need to buy any until next year. So, the only French E-11s I'll probably be seeing for a while will be those made by Schreiber.
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2010-04-29 16:42
The E11 France is a completely redesigned clarinet. It is only available with silver plated keys. The scale is much improved over the former E11.
One might wish that Buffet had come up with a different name than E11 to differentiate between the former E11 and the E11 France.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
New Buffet Clarinets
World Class Mouthpieces
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Author: kathryn777
Date: 2010-04-29 17:54
I thought the parts (the keys at least) are being made in china but put together in france for the new e11 ... i like the schreiber wsles (the old e11)
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-04-29 18:08
There are 2 E-11s. This info isn't on their website yet. There is a silverplated version that was supposed to have been called the E-11 Prince, but is now E-11 France. I haven't seen the less expensive, nickle plated model, but the keywork is made in China to Buffet specs and assembled in France. According to Buffet the two models of E-11 are different clarinets. In what way I'm not sure. The model number of the silver-plated model is BC2501F-2-0, and the nickel plated E-11 is BC2501-5-0. The silver-plated model is entirely made in France...including the keys. There is a substantial difference in price from what I've been told.
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