 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-04-15 08:10
SantiandCo and perhaps other readers on this forum.
After about 2 months of first receiving Tom's clarinet I had to ship it back for adjustments. I have a keen understanding of tuning holes, working with barrels, and the bores of mouthpieces to gain better tuning. I sent it back to Tom asking him to fix the problems but in my opinion it didn't help, and I have to question if he actually made any adjustments at all.
Pros - when playing around Metzo forte (MF), hope I spelled that right, the horn is really good, actually the sound quality could be a tiny bit better than my hand picked Buffet R13's. I tried about 40 R13 horns before picking the one I have. I've played about 60 clarinets since I bought the 1975 horns and I still go back to the ones I have. I did try Dave Shifrins clarinet one time, it was a Selmer 10G and I really loved that key work and ease of playing. That was the only horn I've ever been tempted to buy.
The upper registers of the 575 "A" clarinets are pretty darn good, again maybe easier to play than the R13. Also going from a very high note to a low E was really fun to do. That was excellent. I like how Tom took the time to put cork pads on several of the left hand keys. It's a very live horn and projects really well. It can handle the demands of playing in an orchestra to a professional military band.
The horn also came with a double case. The case is black and seens well sealed from the cold elements.there's room for sheet music, 3 clarinet barrels. The barrels he sent me ranged in size, so you can tune from 443 to 438. Also the case comes with a shoulder strap.
Cons - I had a few friends over and we played the Mozart Clarinet Quintet, not all of it, just parts of each of each movement. Well the horn projected very well, but trying to play softly it was a very frustrating experience. I could not obtain a quality sound. The resistance is too great. I tried several barrels with the same results. Another problem is some dead notes. Some notes pop out fine then the next note you have to add more air control during the 2nd movement. I actually went back to the Buffet clarinet at this point.
Conclusion - When playing softly the clarinet doesn't make make the cut for advanced symphonies nor the pro's. You and the conductors will be frustrated when the notes won't pop out, causing you to actually miss the note. You probably won't be able to play those delicate pieces.
For the record, I tried a Chedeville mouthpiece, a Kasper, a Zinner, and a Vandoren M13. The M13 actually played very slightly freer. Needless to say I had a great range of reeds to try, going back to the early 1980's. So that wasn't the problem. It's surely the horn with the problem.
I would much rather buy a used Buffet, Selmer 10G, for about the same price of Toms clarinet.
Tom is a great guy, he's on to something that can be remarkably great. I hope he can solve this, because the horns can be good enough for symphony orchestras.
Feel free in emailing me for any other information or comments. I'd be very interested if someone else had the same problems but were able to fix it.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2010-04-16 07:06)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-04-15 08:50
I've never tried Didenour clarinets but they are made in China. I didn't find a problem with response playing very very soft on many cheap Chinese clarinets. I don't know why Ridenour's would be different.
Especially if you notice the resistant at very soft volume for "long" notes (i.e. the more fingers you add) then the most likely cause for this is a leak. For example a small leak can make a loud note still fine but make it basically impossible to play the same note very soft.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-04-15 11:29
When I got my clarinet from Tom I found it to be on the soft side, lacking projection and volume a bit. The key height is on the low side- so I raised the clearance on a lot of keys and it helped a lot.
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Author: RoBass
Date: 2010-04-15 12:21
@clarnibass: The provenience, of the clarinet does not correspond with the quality directly. Tom's clarinet blanks are made in China - yes. But the production is according to rules and standards comparable to highest European. And this standards (acc. DIN EN) are higher than the related ISO in in UK or USA!
China is not the location of horn design, it's only a cheaper manufacturing place. And theirs machinery park is most modern - more modern at the most Western factories are. There's a wide gap betweeen typical low-level chinese CSOs and Tom's ebonite blanks.
Please don't spread such undifferenced and false statements without background informations!
Every raw horn is refined and tuned in USA inside of Tom's workshop. And there the intonation comes from - and the lacks of course.-) The price is not as cheap as the mentioned CSOs, and if you don't know this clarinets yourself, please hold comments about quality contained...
kindly
Roman
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2010-04-15 21:12
The only problem that I"m having at the moment with my Lyrique 576 bc is trying to get it up to pitch (A440) Tom is sending me a shorter barrel. As far as the tuning of the instrument itself is concerned, depending in what mouthpiece and reed type I use, all the 12 ths are remarkably in tune and the instrument has a good full 'bodied' sound similar to a wooden instrument. So far I'm very pleased with it. Even the bottom line Eb/D# 'long' fingering (x/xoo/xoo)is in tune. I have no problem playing very softly even up to the high E. There doesn't seem to be any 'dead' notes but the C sharp in the stave sometimes sounds a bit 'lively' and there may be other notes like that as well.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2010-04-15 21:51)
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Author: senior
Date: 2010-04-15 21:50
I also play the RCP-575a and I have for about 18 months. There has been a problem or 2 but I found each problem could be solved with a change at the reed, mouthpiece, player interface. I tried several different high end mouthpiece and a ton of reeds. My solution will undoubtably be different than yours but here it is. The mouthpiece reed combo that solved my problems turned out to be the Pomarico black crystal / Star with a Hahn reed. Coming in a very close 2nd, was a Jody Jazz clarinet mouthpiece and again the Hahn reed. The ones that were good but did not make it. Gigliotti P-34, Vytas Krass K-05.
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Author: clarinetcase
Date: 2010-04-15 22:50
I have a Lyrique B Flat and an A that I bought about 14 months ago. I have been able to play very sofly on either clarinet. I primarily purchased them for playing in churches which had the heat turned way down in the winter and outside concerts. I've had people (whom I didn't know) with some pretty impressive backgrounds compliment my playing when I used Ridenour clarinets. I use a Grabner K14 mouthpiece and Rico reserve reeds, which I also use on my Selmer.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-04-16 03:46
RoBass, seems you misread my post. The meaning is, since even very cheap Chinese clarinets don't have the problem mentioned in the first post, I don't see why Ridenour clarinet would have it.
Re "not as cheap as the mentioned CSOs"... what mentioned CSOs? I didn't mention any.
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Author: rossbu
Date: 2010-04-16 10:00
Mine plays evenly in every respect top to bottom.
Burt
bross141@comcast.net
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Author: RoBass
Date: 2010-04-16 11:20
@clarnibass: Yes, I misunderstood your statement a little bit ;-) But I don't know chinese high-level instruments at the moment. I only know CSOs and hand(post)crafted not Chinese clarinets made from Chinese blanks but finished in Europe or America.
Therefore I can't understand your post yet correctly. Did you mean China borne instruments of higher level? If yes, which type?
kindly
Roman
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Author: MartyMagnini
Date: 2010-04-16 11:43
I have both a Lyrique Bb and A. I find them both to play remarkably well in tune, and I like the sound of them. The A is especially nice, and the resistance and ease of playing in different registers is impressive. My only problem with the instruments is their key work. It takes a bit of getting used to, and doesn't feel very "solid", at least not to me. Because of that reason alone, I usually play my Yamaha custom Bb over the Lyrique most of the time - it's just more comfortable under my fingers and feels more solid. I have had a few students buy Lyriques, and at least 50% of them have had issues with the keys, needing to send them to Tom to get tweaked (which he always does cheerfully and free of charge). It seems they are a bit "delicate" in the keywork, and keys seem to get misaligned easily.
Through the years I've played R13's (for years), and R13 prestige, a series 9 Selmer, and the Yamaha and Lyriques I currently own. The Lyrique is easily the easiest to play horn, and has the best tuning and scale. I don't find any problems at all with projection, or the ability to play soft, with orchestras, with bands, etc. The design of the clarinet is great. The scale is very very good, and the ease of playing puts it in a class by itself. In my humble opinion, if this horn had better made keys, even if Tom had to charge a bit more for it, it would be gaining wider acceptance. I know some people don't have any issues with the key work, but it's my only complaint. I would not hesitate to play the Lyrique in any situation, and if it felt like my Yamaha (or an R13), I would never play any other clarinet again. For some reason, the "A" feels better to me than the Bb - not sure why. Just my .02 cents
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2010-04-16 22:11
Ok I just purchased a Lyrique C clarinet. Here is a quick review: Firstly I'm a Leblanc artist so what ever that means in talking about a non Leblanc clarinet. The lyrigue C clarinet has nicer sound and played better in tune then the Buffet RC Prestige C that I've had for a number of years. I'd give Tom Ridenour an A- in design of this clarinet, the minus is for the key work some of those are not really in the right place for my hand. I'd give the execution of the desighn from the factory in China a D-.
I had a similar problem to Bob with that clarinet when I played it quietly. The problem is the pads suck, those tan pieces of crap don't seal. I had John Parrette of Clarion musical services do a "MO" job on it. Now this clarinet plays like a dream. When this clarinet is in racing shape it kicks butt. But it doesn't come delivered in that shape.
I have to admit I would have payed $500-600 more for a "pro level" treatment of this instrument i.e silver keys, better pads ect. That being said I sold the Buffet RC and I am very happy with this instrument. Now If I could get a Bliss clarinet in C, I think that would show up in great playing shape.
The Lyrique C mentioned above is on loan to a clarinetist in the Army band in DC. When he gets done with it, I'll get him to relate his experiences with it.
Tom Puwalski, LeBlanc Clarinet and Rico Reed Artist
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-04-17 01:42
Wow Tom, I NEVER considered the problem of playing softly the cause of leaky pads. Right after reading your comments I checked the horn to see if it leaked. It sure does!!!
What should I do Tom, send it back or repair the horn myself. The reason for asking is this horn has a 10 day trial. If I mess with the pads Tom Ridinour may refuse to take it back.
I was shocked how badly the horn leaked. I figured Ridinour would have addressed this issue. He's truly is man a nice man, but I don't understand how he would let out a horn with leaky pads.
After testing the horn the upper register is leaking much worse than the lower register, as we all know, if the upper register leaks there is no way for the horn to play right.
Thanks for the information.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-04-17 01:47
If Ridinour lets me replace those tan pads, I'll use real cork. Folks, I'll keep you all posted.
Bob
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2010-04-17 02:05
I think I ended up with a really nice C clarinet, John did a really nice job repairing it. I think it's up to you, you are not going to know how it plays until someone really good goes over it. I presume you got the Low C A clarinet? Where else are you going to get one that inexpensive? it's very similar to the C clarinet you're not going to use it all day and every day. Why spend big money for something that will sit in the case most of the time. I'd spend some money and have it put into racing condition.
Tom Puwalski, LeBlanc Clarinet and Rico Reed Artist
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Author: rossbu
Date: 2010-04-21 22:36
In regard to Tom's review, while I appreciate Tom's critique I
believe certain issues need to be addressed.
1. In regard to the padding: I don't know of any professional
clarinetists that play a clarinet "as is" from the factory. Everyone
I know takes it to the repair tech of his choice and has the padding
redone and regulated to suit himself. It's not uncommon for players
to spend a thousand dollars to bring their clarinet up to their
perceived standard. Yet, I never recall players complaining about
this or even saying it is problematic---nor are they surprised at
having to do this. They expect it and prepare for it financially.
Yet, when I deliver a clarinet to them of superior acoustics; a
clarinet that will never crack or change in bore dimensions, a
clarinet that will never bind in assembly or have the problems common
to wood clarinets, a clarinet I sell to them at a tiny fraction of
the cost of other clarinets they would consider, often saving them
thousands of dollars, I am criticized for not delivering it to them
in condition they expect from their artist repair tech after sinking
several hundred dollars into it.
This strikes me as a terrible double standard and wholly unfair.
2. The pads I use in the upper joint are not crap. They are Valentino
cork-style pads. They seal very well. While every clarinet I send
out is not absolutely air-tight (some are), every clarinet I send out
seals very well and the actual performance of the instrument is not
impaired at all. If it were I would not send it. The fact is,
whether one accepts it or not, an absolute air-tight seal, while a
nice thing to have, is not required for the clarinet to play very
well. But clarinetists have this in their minds and nothing will
change it. The perceived difference in the performance of a clarinet
that seals well and one that is air-tight would take "the Princess
and the Pea" level of sensitivity to detect--if then.
Second, the pads I use out last cork pads by three and four times.
They do not stick. I've been playing with these pads in my clarinets
for a decade and have never had sticking problems. They also are
much quieter than cork and produce a softer tone, similar to skin
pads. They are also inert and unaffected by weather and humidity
changes, unlike cork pads, which dry up in the dry indoor heating of
winter. I personally don't like the hard, bright sound cork pads
tend to produce, so the softer, darker texture in the tone is
something that appeals to me--but I realize that's a personal
preference. I use the Valentino pads, not because they are cheap, but
because they have these features. They are the same quality of pads
Al Alphin and other artist repair techs have used for years and years
to do artist repairs for hundreds of players. They are in no way
cheap or cut-rate--they are a bargain, they seal very well and,
unless keys are bent, they will not need replacing for years and
years, well over a decade with reasonable care.
3. In regard to cost; no doubt Tom would have gladly paid $500.00
more for the clarinet to be in the condition he prefers, but most
would not. That he chooses to have the clarinet customized is simple
his personal discretion. I say this knowing my Lyrique C clarinet has
been purchased and used, as is, by principal players in six major
orchestras, including three of our top Symphony orchestras here in
the US, as well as recording artists at major movie recording
studios, and not one of these players to date has complained to me
about its performance or the playing condition of the clarinet they
received.
So, while Tom may have felt the need to have the padding redone and
the regulation done to suit him, resulting in what he judges to be
improvements, numerous other clarinetists of equal skill have not.
Even if they had how would that be any different than what they have
done with other professional instruments they have purchased over the
years?
In short, his "D-" grade for the factory padding preparation is, in
my judgment, gross hyperbole. I played and taught professionally for
several decades and know what the market has been like, and the
preparation of my clarinets is at least the equal of the clarinets I
and my students purchased over the years--frankly, I believe the
preparation is superior to the common standard.
4. Finally, the Lyrique C clarinet is actually an acoustical
improvement on my C clarinet designs at Leblanc. The Opus and
Concerto C clarinets were outstanding instruments, setting a new
standard for tone and tuning in the C clarinet. Once I finished
those designs I fell in love with the C clarinet and promised myself
I would do all I could to popularize it and change the perception of
it being a clarinet that is bright and harsh and impossible to play
in tune. Rather, I hoped to encourage clarinetists to come to see it
as a clarinet that plays well in tune, has a beautiful, lyrical and
gentle quality of tone, a flawless legato and amazingly efficient,
even response: a superior instrument for the expressive phrasing of
music.
Once popularized a whole dimension of musical style would be open to
clarinetists, especially music from the Baroque. Flute sonatas, oboe
sonatas and other works would all become standard recital repertoire,
giving the clarinetist another "voice" that recital listeners would
find refreshing.
The Lyrique provides those same acoustical standards found in the
Opus/Concerto, with what I judge to be an even darker tone and
rounder high tones, and it provides it for ONE FIFTH the price.
I raise this cost point because Tom mentioned in his review that he
has done what many of my customers have done:
purchased my clarinet at a tremendous savings, sold the clarinet it
replaced (while they have paid hundreds and hundreds of dollars more
for--and which they had also had customized to suit them) and ended
up with lots of $$$ in his pocket and a better clarinet--Yet, he
finds occasion to complain.
No good deed, it seems, goes unpunished.
The fact that Tom is an endorser for another company is something I
won't address but it might be something to consider.
In closing I want to say I'll be the first to admit that my work is
not always unimpeachable and I am always ready to make good on any
perceived failures or faults. But I reject the idea of providing
something acoustically superior to clarinetists at a tremendous
savings and then being held to a much higher and stricter standard
than other makers, especially when these other clarinets cost
thousands of dollars more and yet routinely must have the padding
redone and the mechanism re-regulated and such customizing is done
without complaint.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander.
tom ridenour
bross141@comcast.net
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-04-21 23:36
The tan Valentino pads seal as well as any pad out there. No pad will seal properly if it isn't level with the tone hole. Not getting a pad level is a human error. It is no fault of the pad.
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2010-04-22 02:29
Wow.
I had the opportunity to play a colleague's Ridenour C recently (in a church performance) and was so delighted with it that I actually am contemplating getting one. The only complaint I have from my rxperience is that the clarion A wouldn't speak at times. I was using an M13 Vandoren mouthpiece at the time. I don't know why that clarion A would only speak 50% of the time but my overall experience on the horn was a delightful one.
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2010-04-22 03:49
I want to say that I really enjoy playing on this C clarinet. It has a beautiful sound and really top notch intonation. I feel that this clarinet is a superior instrument to the Buffet Rc that I formerly played, that clarinet required much more work then the lyrique C did to get it in racing shape.
But I have to take issue with the pads, those are not same pad as the white valentinos. I had one of my repair techs, one who is very familiar with the regular valentinos try to improve the seal of the clarinet and he met with minimal success. I then had John Parrette replace the pads with the regular white valentinos and the clarinet plays great. When this instrument is in great repair it plays like a dream. Thats a tall order for a C clarinet. The Buffet had more of an Efferesque sound and the lryique had more of a Bb quality.
I regret if my thoughts on my Clarinet in any way "Dissed" what Tom is doing. I was just trying to relate that I think that my clarinet is now playing like it was designed to play and thats real nice, and that's alot better than much more expensive C clarinets.
Tom Puwalski
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Author: grifffinity
Date: 2010-04-22 04:34
Tom Ridenour,
When are you going to design a Soprano Eb?
Post Edited (2010-04-22 04:35)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-04-22 18:32
Tom Ridenour sent me a very nice email about Buffet clarinets and his own clarinets. He had some very valid comments. My Buffets are from 1975 and have been well played. The average time spent is about 3 hours a day of practice or perhaps more. I can understand how I may have blown out the horns after all of these years. It makes total sense. Tom also stated that Harold Wright would replace his horns perhaps every 7 to 8 years. I know that Fred Ormand replaces his horns as well. This probably has something to do with resistance, or the lack of it, from older horns and I need some playing time to adjust.
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Author: Bobby McClellan
Date: 2010-04-24 01:57
An Eb from Tom we be great but what about an F bassett? strange request you think? but this comes from a satisfied customer with his bassett a and his BBb contra.
Bobby
Bobby M. McClellan
Flowood, MS
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