 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GBK
Date: 2010-04-12 17:08
The bell on a colleague's new Buffet clarinet has become difficult to remove.
Since it is definitely because of wood to wood contact (not a cork which is too thick) is the sanding done inside the socket or at the tenon?
I suspect the answer is to sand the inside the bell socket because of the fragility of the lower tenon. Correct?
Does the same answer hold true (remove material from inside the socket) if the upper and lower joints are too tight?
...GBK
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2010-04-12 17:25
One potential problem would be rocking (wooble) - if wood were taken off of the wrong area or too much.
The problem can be really noticed in the summer and less in the winter. Of course the winter would be when the rocking would take place more.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-04-12 17:53
I believe you're only talking about a few 'thousanths' (less than a sheet of paper)of an inch, so I would sand on the tenon, where you can do accurate work. I would use a soft pencil to put some graphite in the socket area where contact is occuring (you may have to clean out some grease) then insert the LJ. The graphite will show up on the contact areas, carefully sand off (fine fingernail-type file)the graphite on the tenon, try again, sand, try again, till you get a good fit. Keep the bell logo up as much as possible, unless you want to be able to assemble the bell in any position. Quite often, the tenon/socket connection is slightly out of round, so I usually assemble things in close to their finished position.
Many of us would love to have your problem, since you will likely end up with a nice wobble-free joint. Most of us have too much wood-to-wood clearance, and have to rely on a wobbly, but tight, cork. Of course, its the middle joint thats usually the problem in that regard.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-04-12 19:18
You're probably best using a very sharp scraper and only skimming the tenon rings to remove a small amount of wood (only dust) and that will be enough to ensure a good, wobble-free and non sticking fit. You can see where the wood is in contact as it will leave shiny spots - remove the shiny spots and that will sort it out.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-04-12 19:19
A couple more thoughts. My reccomendation above assumes the wood-to -wood contact was at the bottom of the bell socket. If the contact is at the entrance to the bell socket, I would instead put the graphite on the tenon above the cork, and sand lightly at the entrance of the bell socket, where the graphite shows. This would keep graphite off the cork, and confine wood removal to easily accessible areas, where accuracy is easier to obtain. White contact markers, like a white crayon, can be used, if you want to keep the cork clean. In the gunbuilding field these are called "inletting black" or "inletting white" , and are also referred to as a 'third eye', allowing you to 'see' in areas where normal vision doesn't reach.
This advice, of sanding on the tenon end, or socket entrance, is my own opinion only, and I welcome other, even contrary, opinions.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-04-12 19:34
And thoroughly clean all the grease off the tenon (scrape the collected grease from around the shoulder with an old reed, finishing off with a dry cotton rag) and you'll get a much better idea where the wood is binding.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-04-12 19:41
Personally I would go with GBK's first 'hunch' and remove some material from the inside of the bell socket to increase its inside diameter. I do this with a Dremel motor and a sanding drum (fine grit). Can take off a lot of material quickly this way so it's important to stop frequently, clean off the dust, and fit-check.
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-04-12 22:14
I hope nobody's looking for a nice, comforting "concensus" on this BB. And that reminds me, I haven't filled out my census form yet, so my hard-working community can get all those Federal "Entitlements" we're entitled to. ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: pewd
Date: 2010-04-13 04:32
i've found i can usually solve the problem quicker by sanding the tenon. you're not removing much material, the strength of the tenon doesn't seem to be an issue in my experience. fwiw, i've sanded dozens of clarinets, not hundreds, my experience is thus somewhat limited. sometimes for difficult cases i sand both .
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-04-13 04:38
It's extremely rare that more than a very very small amount is necessary to remove, so it doesn't really matter. Usually (almost always) the areas that stick will be shiny on the tenon. If you assemble in a different direction, mostly the same areas are shiny. Why remove wood in areas that not causing them to stick. Remove only where necessary. Also with the tenon you can exactly remove at the top of bottom wood rings. In the socket it's much harder to remove only there. You might remove a bit also in the cork area etc. which again will cause less support.
Post Edited (2010-04-13 07:11)
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2010-04-13 13:41
I would get hold of some other clarinets of the same make and try swapping: either the bell is too small or the tenon is too big, and the difference will matter if you ever swap the bell (e.g. if it cracks). In other words, sand things to make the dimensions more like the average instrument.
This problem is easier to solve at the other end: you don't want to sand your mouthpiece, since you may well want to use it on other instruments. So you sand inside the top of the barrel if it's too tight.
But I recently had the opposite problem: the top socket in a barrel was too big. I didn't want to bulk up the cork on the mouthpiece, since it then wouldn't fit well on other instruments. The solution I hit on was to get some of the thin black plastic you find in the temporary plant pots in garden centres. With some epoxy, I glued a cylinder of this stuff inside the top socket. Without looking closely, you can't tell it isn't wood, and it reduced the internal dimension by about the right amount. This may be a practical solution that could also be applied to wobbly central joints. Apart from being cheaper than the professional solution (ream it out and insert a cylinder of new wood), this also has the merit that you could restore things to their original state if you ever wanted.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2010-04-13 14:10
I agree with Chris nd Clarnibass.
Another reason to work on the tenon is that you can see what you are doing. You can see the shiny spots.
And BTW, no need to use graphite to highlight these shiny spots. If you can't see them, just clean the tenon timber of grease before you start.
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2010-04-13 15:39
I've used both methods depending on the severity of the problem. Gordon and Clarinebass, have you ever removed the bell ring and worked on it to alleviate the problem? I successfully used that approach once without making the ring fit loosely.
John
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2010-04-13 21:11
When I've had this, careful measurement has revealed that the tenon had become out-of-round. So the logical first step was to remove material from the tenon until it was round again.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2010-04-14 00:44
"Gordon and Claribass, have you ever removed the bell ring and worked on it to alleviate the problem?"
No. But it has merit.
I work on the socket when it is not cylindrical, i.e. smaller ID beneath the ring, but working on the ID of the ring may do that even better.
Post Edited (2010-04-14 15:00)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-04-14 00:50
Chances are all wooden clarinets will be out of round to some degree - it's in the nature of the material.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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