 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-04-07 18:03
At the risk of revealing my lack of formal music training: I've spent the last week restoring an interesting early Buffet. It's a grenadilla horn with a one piece body, wrap-around register, full boehm (7-ring, 20 keys) no ser.#, Buffet Crampon logo on all pieces, overall length of 26 .25" (667mm) or just a hair longer than your standard Bb.
After finally finding an old chedeville mpc. that fit its slightly oversize mpc. socket, I found it played nicely, but using my normal Bb fingerings, every note was a full note high! Looking closer, all the toneholes (and thumbrest) are 1/2" (13mm) closer to the mpc. tip than on a Bb. The lowest tonehole is on the other hand, about a quarter inch (7mm) lower than on a Bb.
Now, I like to think I'm no dummy (contrary to my wife's oft stated opinion) but is this a key of 'A' clarinet?? I can find no HP or LP marks, just an H. Bettony, Boston, Mass under the bell Buffet logo.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-04-07 18:06
If it's a half-step high compared to your Bb, it could be a B natural clarinet. An A clarinet would sound a half-step lower.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-04-07 18:59
If the notes are a full step high then it would be a C clarinet.
This would also tie in with it's length being about that of a normal Bb clarinet, having the low Eb extension.
I must admit I've never come across a full Boehm C instrument but if it's really old it is possible.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-04-07 19:44
Play a C on the instrument. See what note your tuner identifies it as. That will tell you what key your instrument is in. Base it on the standard fingering for this note: ![[C5]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/c5.gif) . If the tuner says you are playing a C, you have a C clarinet; if it reads Bb, you have a Bb; if it reads A, you have a A clarinet.....
Jeff
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-04-07 20:07
Norman and JJ beat me to it. Try it with the tuner as JJ said, that will tell. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2010-04-07 21:33
Sounds to me like you have a high pitch Bflat. When you say a 'full note" sharp, I assume you mean one semitone difference. A high pitch Bflat plays approximately as a modern clarinet in B (if there was such a thing). Being full Boehm, it has an extension to written Eflat, and this extra semitone on the range is why the length is still approximately that of a modern Bflat.
In detail, the difference is not quite a semitone. High pitch was A=452 (at least, in Europe - some US references specify 457). Exactly one semitone above the modern A=440 would be 466, so even an instrument tuned to 457 would play slightly flat relative to a modern instrument in B.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-04-07 22:57
If you could record and upload a quick sound clip of your playing a note on the Leblanc Classic and then the same note on the Buffet, one of us could give you a definitive answer (no tuner required).
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-04-07 23:05
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Dang, looks like I left my tuner with my formal training!! Here's some picts, if I can figure out how to attach them : Buffet on left, modern Leblanc Classic Bb on right.
Without a tuner, When I play a 'hands off' note on a Bb, I get a 'G', low register (according to my fingering chart). "Hands off" with the mystery Buffet, I get a note exactly a half note higher, what I would get if I played an"G#" on a Bb. I'm sorry to have wasted anybodies time when I said earlier a full note sharp, looks like I should have said a 'semitone'. My appologies. Looks like I have a Bb HP then, always wondered what they sounded like.!
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-04-07 23:26
It looks like Mr Peacock from Edinburgh, and mrn from McKinney, Texas win this latest contest of " who can guess what the newbie idiot bought on E-bay?" What is the standard prize for these contests? Bear in mind you'll have to split it.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-04-07 23:34
Just for the heck of it, here's a sound clip of a 'hands off' "G" on the Leblanc Classic, followed by the same 'hands off' note on the Buffet HP : Upload failed, got a message that I'd exceeded my attachment limit. Note quavered anyway, but would have been good for a laugh,
Clark G. Sherwood
Post Edited (2010-04-07 23:49)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2010-04-08 01:54
Hi, Clark, after studying your pics, [thanks], I have a thot that may explain the length question. Your Buff is a Full Boehm clarinet with 20/7 keys/ rings, dating from aroung the turn of the century [19 /20 that is]. I have owned many F B's and they all measured about 1 1/2" longer than their equivalent "standard" Bb cl so as to have the tube length to reachplay the low Eb as needed by symphonic players to be able to transpose parts written for an A clarinet. This is accomplished by the lowest pad/tonehole operated by the 5th [!!] "touch" for the right hand little finger. Thus the length just happens to be much the same as a "standard" Bb. Therefore I tend to believe that it is a High Pitch Bb made by Buffet in France, and [perhaps] imported/sold by Harry Bettoney in the US. I'd doubt that it is an L P clarinet in the key of C where F B's are infrequent, amd likely somewhat shorter yet. Sorry to be so verbose, but you may have a "museum piece" of history that is hard to describe. Luck with it, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-04-08 03:09
By the look of it next to the Bb, I would say that it is in C. Also, having the doughnut key on the LH middle finger tells me that it is from an era that should have a serial number.
Buffet started stamping numbers in the 1880s or so and the doughnut key was much later than that (about 1920s).
However, it is still possible that there really is no number, but you should look again.
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-04-08 03:33
skygardener; I think you're right on the time frame. The area at the bottom rear of the body, where a ser'# would be, is worn, and marked up, like somebody had trouble getting the bell off. A number may be there, maybe a 41?, but even under a stereomicroscope just too worn to tell.
I don't suppose it shows in the images, but the quality of the fit/finish on the unplated keywork is very high, reminds me of a Malerne Professional, another clarinet with very nice keywork, but maybe even nicer. They sure did high quality work in that era ( I also collect Colts, Parkers, Winchesters, etc that are likewise products of lovely machine work combined with meticulous hand fitting)!
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2010-04-08 06:00
As mentioned before, a tuner would settle the issue by playing an instrument C
If you do not have a tuner to hand - does your computer have a microphone? If so, then use the on-line tuner at:
Chris
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2010-04-08 13:40
If Al Rice and/or Debbi Reeves haven't already discovered this thread, I'd suiggest going to [and posting on] the "Early Clarinet" Yahoo site where the "museum experts" discuss old and older cls. I'll look in my books by Rice et al to see if mention is made of late 1800/early 1900 F B cls. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-04-08 14:04
Thanks, one and all, for your invaluable help and expertise. If I'd known tuners were dirt cheap, I'd have picked one up long ago! I'll get one, and report back in a week or two, so we can put this thread to rest.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-04-08 14:15
A tuner is amost indispensable to have in your case or gig bag. Given that you can get the Korg TM 40 Tuner/Metronome for around $40, I wouldn't leave the house without one in my clarinet case!
Jeff
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Author: jasperbay
Date: 2010-04-08 16:32
That didn't take long. Turns out you can download a free tuner (the software, I guess) called A P Guitar Tuner, plug in your mike, and tune your clarinet by playing the note shown by JJAlbrecht earlier in this thread (what I would call middle 'C', or 'C' above the break.
Turns out I play 10-20 cents flat on my Bb Leblanc (clearly no symphonies in my future), and the mystery Buffet wants to be "B" clarinet -but about 20cents flat. Pulling the barrel out 6mm, I can easily get it to a true Bb! Not sure how this helps decide LP or HP, I'm leaning towards HP, but maybe with a larger chambered mpc??, or a longer bbl.(this one which looks original, is 63mm) who knows. The old Buffet 'C' hard rubber Chedeville(?), the only mpc. I could find with a fat enough cork to fit the barrel, plays exactly like a B45,BTW, kind of loud and jazzy. Also BTW, the bore mikes out at .580", a tad large by modern standards,maybe.
Clark G. Sherwood
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-04-08 17:06
I have just assembled and measured 2 modern Noblet clarinets, 1 in Bb and 1 in C and a Leblanc A (which equates to a full Boehm Bb).
The overall lengths (excluding mouthpieces which are normally exactly the same for both )
Bb - 23 3/8" (595 mm)
A - 24 15/16" (633mm)
C - 20" (510mm)
So the A is 6.4% longer than the A
Thus a full Boehm modern C would be about 21 5/16" (542 mm)
The Bb barrel is 66mm and the C is 54, significantly shorter.
It seems thus that a HP Bb is much more likely although logically the difference between LP and HP is only about 3%
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Author: Phil Pedler
Date: 2010-04-09 13:48
I have a very similar instrument. Mine is a standard B-flat pitched instrument and without the extra low E-flat. Also it is not a unibody. Other than that, many similarities.
I also have an Buffet A with a low E-flat key. Both instruments are shown on clarinetpages.net in the Vintage Wooden section. The B-flat is
https://sites.google.com/a/clarinetpages.net/www/vintage-odd-brands/buffet-circa-1905-b-flat
It is interesting to me that my instrument also has an American company (Fischer, NY) stamped on the bell.
I wonder if anyone having these has experienced the clarion register being unusually flat. I almost wondered if my B-flat had an A clarinet right hand joint.
Phil
Phil Pedler
clarinetpages.wetpaint.com
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