 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2000-12-11 07:55
Last week my teacher showed me (just for my culture, no training purpose) that it is possible, fingering an E below the staff, to produce a lot of different sounds (she could make as many as 9!) the first one different from the low E is the B (middle of the staff, the one you get with the same fingering + register key) wich is the 3rd harmonic and the others are supposed to be higher odd harmonics.
back home I took off the shelf an old phisycs book and found that tubes with one side open and the other close are supposed to produce only odd harmonics
is anyone able to explain me why should I consider the reed+embochure of the clarinet closed and the hole of the flute closed???
then, after so much theory, I liked to practise a little bit this funny feature of the horn... so fingered a low E and... (here put a lot of trials with different blowing and or mouth position) finally I got an harmonic!! ehehe... it wasn't the third ... so it should be the fifth! ... I played a well over the staff G sure to acknowledge the sound I produced with my harmonic... well I was wrong!!... after a while I realized that my harmonic was an E over the staff: 2 octaves higher => the fourth harmonic!!
is this possible? is theory so far from reality? is it me? my horn (buffett RC + B40)?
no matter how I tried I couldn't produce the third harmonic fingering the low E, however I did fingering from G in the middle of the staff to the C just below the staff closing just one more hole (to go to Bb) made the horn jump from the 3rd harmonic to the fundamental... any suggestion here???
in all my experiments, to be able to produce these harmonics (after a while I learned to produce even the fifth), I got more (than usual) embochure into my mouth and mabye did somthing else that I can't describe (beacuse I didn't realize exactly what I did). Anyway I tried to play the notes in the high register (those I knew the fingering C#-G over the staff, the same that were a real pain...) and to my GREAT SUPRISE they were EASY to play and control!!! going down to the clarion register (same way of blowing) however was a real disaster I couldn't play B to F without being very likely to jumo on high harmonics
now I'm mumbling in my head " shoud I change the way I keep the embochure in my mouth and the way I blow swithchin forth and back from clarion to high register"?????
I would also like to know of books about the physics of the clarinet not simplified from the mathematics-physics point of view
uliano
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Author: Rene
Date: 2000-12-11 09:20
I can get the third harmonic, by blowing B as normal, then closing the register key, but keeping a stronger air pressure than normal. So is my horn defect? It is a really bit harder to play the clarion B - chal. E combination legato and with a sudden but nice transition (the other way being more easy).
I guess, if the clarinet does not leak, it is a matter of lip and air control.
Rene
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2000-12-11 09:52
You seem to have one thing a bit wrong. The reed end of a clarinet behaves as a closed end, as you say, so for playing a fundamental the tube contains only QUARTER of a wavelength. However the embouchure end of a flute behaves as an open end so playing a fundamental the tube contains HALF a wave length [a (anti?)node half way along]. It is because of these behaviours that although a clarinet and flute are about the same length the clarinet is about an octave lower.
The pitch anomalies you are experiencing may be because the wave extends past the open end (at an open tone hole or the end of the instrument). Moreover, the higher the harmonic, the more it extends past the end. The diameter and depth of the tone holes also affects this. So some harmonics may be quite out of tune - perhaps a semitone - I don't know. As I understand it one of the reasons for the flared bell is to reduce this effect of harmonics being out of tune. On a flute with its large shallow tone holes it is surprising how in-tune the harmonics are.
If you want a technical reference you could try a standard reference, 'Fundamentals of Musical Acoustics' by Arthur H Benade, ISBN 0-486-26484-X, which is quite a substantial work on the subject and has 75 of its 580 odd pages devoted to woodwinds. I think he also wrote other books on the subject.
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2000-12-11 11:01
Gordon wrote:
> You seem to have one thing a bit wrong. The reed end of a clarinet behaves as a closed end, as you
> say, so for playing a fundamental the tube contains only QUARTER of a wavelength. However the
> embouchure end of a flute behaves as an open end so playing a fundamental the tube contains
> HALF a wave length [a (anti?)node half way along]. It is because of these behaviours that although
> a clarinet and flute are about the same length the clarinet is about an octave lower.
course you're right!! I miswrote: the flute is open and clarinet closed
(even if I don't understand why... guess your reference is a good point to start)
> The pitch anomalies you are experiencing may be because [...]
I won't call them pitch abnormalities it was a *pretty in tune* E over the staff, sure it was the 4th harmonic because I could also get the 5th (pretty in tune with the G over) that even harmonic does confuse me a bit: am I playin a clarinet or a flute?
tnx 4 the reference,
uliano
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2000-12-11 11:07
Rene wrote:
> I can get the third harmonic, by blowing B as normal, then closing the register key, but keeping a
> stronger air pressure than normal.
I can do almost the same provided my mouthpiece is a little deeper inside the mouth than I'm used to
What I can't do is to start the clarion B with the regiser key closed
>So is my horn defect?
don't think so... same as mine
> It is a really bit harder to play the
> clarion B - chal. E combination legato and with a sudden but nice transition
eheh... I never thougt that way... yes could be a problem (at least to me)
> I guess, if the clarinet does not leak, it is a matter of lip and air control.
what about relative position of mouth and mouthpiece?
bye, uliano
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-12-11 15:59
Gordon, thank you for the explanation of the clarinet/flute difference which has puzzled me [and others] re: acoustics. We have discussed this subject several times, so searching the Phorum will be helpful to the thread-posters, I'm sure. I have wondered about the energy content of the [mainly odd] higher harmonics when the fundemental and 3rd [clarion] are supressed when playing in the altissimo [5 th and 7th]. I think back re: the oboe's sounding an octave higher because of more energy in the 2nd than in the fund. Interesting/complex. Don
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Author: Amanda Rose
Date: 2000-12-11 16:33
I've never tried this on my clarinet but I ought to. It's a lot easier on saxophone!!!
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Author: J. Butler
Date: 2000-12-11 16:41
Ferron's book "The Clarinet Revealed" discusses the physics of the clarinet in the first chapter. It is very interesting, but was a little hard for me to understand at first. I had to really think about it before it "sunk in". It is a very good book to have for reference, although a little too costly for what it is.
John
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Author: Phil
Date: 2000-12-11 16:44
One has to remember that on a saxophone the bore overblows an octave, as does the flute, hhowever the clarinet overblows the 12th. So if one were to overblow the middle C, c1, the first partial would be the G above the staff, as if one were putting on the register key. The partial above that woud be the D above the staff and so on. The registaer it overblows are different, so done look for the normal, pedal, octave, 5th, 4th, 3rd, etc progression of harmonics with the clarinet.
Also all these overtones should be able to be reproduced WITHOUT the register key being opened. It takes alot of controll, but they register key shouldn't have to be depressed to produce the harmonics.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-12-12 16:28
In clinics, the great saxophonist Sigurd Rascher would talk about playing harmonics and demonstrate a remarkable control over them. Then he would say that to quiet suspicions that he was fiddling with the keys, he carried a spare saxophone. He would then pull out an instrument with no keys and play the same harmonics. Quite a show.
Rascher developed the high range to a remarkable degree. There's a nice description at http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~museyadz/altiss.html.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Daniel Bouwmeeszer
Date: 2000-12-12 22:35
I am able to play two octaves using one fingering. From B (third line of staff) to high C# (5 lines above staff). This by making a controlled "squeak".
Basically, I can play the standard harmonics, and the notes between them are made by changing the size of the cavity of my mouth and by changing embouchure.... Basically changing the frequency of the sound wave.
Best wishes
Daniel B.
Geneva, Switzerland
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2000-12-13 06:59
Erratum:
the following paragraph is full of errors
>then, after so much theory, I liked to practise a little bit this funny feature of the horn... so fingered a >low E and... (here put a lot of trials with different blowing and or mouth position) finally I got an >harmonic!! ehehe... it wasn't the third ... so it should be the fifth! ... I played a well over the staff G >sure to acknowledge the sound I produced with my harmonic... well I was wrong!!... after a while I >realized that my harmonic was an E over the staff: 2 octaves higher => the fourth harmonic!!
actually the E over the staff is 3 octaves higher than low E so the harmonic I got was the 8th not the 4th!!! That's much more believable because at so a high frequency (1.16 or so kHz) I guess that the behaviour of the clarinet is far from the Ideal tube closed on 1 side...
I confirmed my guess with a spectrum analyzer and I found that just the 2nd & 4th harmonic are missing (or really low power for my mic and audio board) while 6th is there, even very low power compared to the 7th, from 8th up all even harmonics are there with more or less the power expected (the power decreases with harmonic order in a way similar to the odd ones)
still I can't believe haw I could have confused the octaves :-((
uliano
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2000-12-13 11:50
Don Berger:
The oboe , although it has a closed end like the clarinet and is about the same length, is about an octave higher because, like the saxophone, it has a tapered bore which does lord-knows-what to the sound wave and makes the 1st overtone an octave above the fundamental like a flute.
Although the fundamentals are similar to a flute I believe it is true that one of the overtones is indeed louder than the fundamental, which is charactistic of the double reeds (oboe, Cor Anglais, duck caller, bag pipes, bassoon, kid;'s toy horn, and squashed drinking straw) and gives them that duck-like sound.
Does a duck have a double reed in its throat????
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-12-13 14:44
Thanx, Gordon, your comments confirm my experience of 10 years [fighting reeds and oboe-EH, I lost!!] and what research I did re: harmonic spectral detail/peculiarities, Velly Interesting !! Re: the clarinet, I will try to acquire a copy of Ferron [thanks, John Butler for the ref.] and since at this time we are snowed in [Right Here in River City, Okla.{my small joke!} ] I see some spare time for study. Its great to discuss tech. detail again. Don
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Author: Anji
Date: 2000-12-14 14:17
Hey UG...
What sort of differences would you anticipate in the FFT plot of a wooden body and plastic (or composite) body soprano horn?
It would be nice to quantify some of my subjective impressions.
anji
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Author: uliano guerrini
Date: 2000-12-14 19:56
Anji wrote:
> What sort of differences would you anticipate in the FFT plot
> of a wooden body and plastic (or composite) body soprano horn?
I can't:
in europe, at least italy pastic horns are not considered musical instruments (I know is a kind of snobism :-( ) and so the are: rare, expansive, and impossible to sell 2nd hand so I never listened to their sound
> It would be nice to quantify some of my subjective impressions.
that can be easy for you: a pc, an audio board, a mic, and a software (search the net for chap shareware)... provided you hav access to a plastic horn
uliano
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Author: Rene
Date: 2000-12-18 12:25
Anji, I did that already. There are no clear cut differences.
But when I take off my reed and bend it a little bit, remounting it a bit more upwards, I get a lot of difference (not even necessary to record it, everyone hears it). Let alone changing the mouthpiece.
Rene
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