 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: srattle
Date: 2010-03-26 00:07
I want to preface this by saying that I LOVE these reeds. They are the best reeds I have ever used, the most consistent, and I love the sound of them. I use them in size 4.0 and 4.0+ on my brad behn vintage!
Anyway, I'm upset and frustrated, because the reeds that aren't good to use, are all because they are physically broken.
I bought a box of 4.0+ reeds a month ago or so, and there was one where the whole right side was missing, and a few others with chips and things.
Well, I wrote to Rico, telling them about this, and they sent me another pack free of charge. Lovely I thought. Until I opened the box, and there are about 3 reeds with chips in the tip, one with a large section of the side gone (which is basically unplayable) and another which is just cracked all the way down the middle, about 4 mms.
Now, it's hard to complain too much, because the other 5 are great, but this shouldn't be happening. I can't imagine it is too hard to put in reeds that aren't destroyed, and leave it up to me to destroy them myself, but if I'm paying $27 or something for 10 reeds, I would like them all to have at least the ability to work from the get go.
I don't know if anyone else has found this problem, but something is going seriously wrong (maybe with the packaging?)
It's very frustrating!!!!!
Sacha
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2010-03-26 00:28
They are way too expensive to be buying with broken tips and the sort. I'd definitely keep contacting Rico and let them know because that's ridiculous to pay 27+ a box to not have all 10 in good physical condition. I like them too and are consistent but I think they are way too stuffy for my setup, too resistant, but I have gotten a box with one of the reeds chipped at the tip. Keep letting them know 'cause that's ridiculous.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-03-26 00:54
Did you write about this before? I remember someone complaining about broken reeds coming from new boxes. It isn't much of a sample, but I bought three boxes a couple of months ago and they were all intact.
It's hard to imagine they're breaking inside the packaging during shipment - they come in those plastic holders, don't they? Where are you buying them? It sounds like a dumb suggestion on its face, but is it possible your supplier is repackaging reeds from open boxes? I don't know how hard it would be to replace the plastic shrink wrap. Of course, even that wouldn't explain the replacement box you got directly from Rico.
It will be interesting to read how widespread this problem is.
Karl
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-03-26 02:33
It was me who complained about the chips on the tip of these reeds on an earlier thread- though the last 2 boxes i have opened have been fine... however the first 3 boxes i opened had at least one reed per box that was damaged.
dn
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2010-03-26 06:31
I also complained. I often find one reed chipped in a new box. I wonder why this is happening? We should let Rico know somehow?
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2010-03-26 06:57
srattle, by the way, which model of Behn Vintage mouthpiece do you play on?
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-03-26 07:23
"The reeds are hand clipped"
Maybe yes and maybe no, depending on the machine the reeds were cut on. There are around 15 clarinet machines and 17 sax machines.
Many of the cutting machines have been automated.
My guess is the packaging department is at fault. There is an automated packaging machine that places the reeds into the plastic reed holders and once they are placed into these holders no other form of quality control, human inspections, are put into place.
Call Rico, ask for one of the clarinetist there. I think Brian Terrell is still there. He may have retired by now.
I worked there for 15 years, I was in charge of the Grand Concert reeds, as well as the Mitchell Lurie reeds, and the Hemke soprano sax reeds.
Hope this helps.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: donald
Date: 2010-03-26 10:01
Hey Bob, i loved the Blue box (of 5) Grand Concert Thick blanks when they first came out... but i believe they changed the cut when they changed to boxes of 10 (red boxes), is this true?
dn
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Author: Ed
Date: 2010-03-26 12:04
I'll cross my fingers--so far I have not experienced this.
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Author: wolfedp
Date: 2010-03-26 15:05
I haven't had this problem to the magnitude that srattle has but there will often be one or two with chipped tips when I buy them. It is very frustrating.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-03-26 16:07
Keep complaining, everyone with this problem should keep complaining. There's no excuse for this to happen at any price. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2010-03-26 16:40
Are Rico Reserve Classic more consistent than the regular Reserve ?
I find the consistent of the regular Reserve to be one of the worst in over a 20 types of reeds(maybe about 15 brands). I could use from the 3 boxes I've tried maybe 6 reeds or 2 out of 5 in each box and still they had to be balanced a bit. I need to balance at least 5 out of 10 in a box of V-12 but not that much like with the ones I could use from Rico Reserve.
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Author: AaronClarinet
Date: 2010-03-26 16:56
It's not just physical damage to the reeds. In a new box of 4.0+, I found cane of exceedingly poor quality, mottled pigmentation of the bottom surface, obscured fibers, etc. (the cane looks like some unopened reeds I found dating back to the late 1960's, which have oxidative damage to the fiber). In addition, most of the blanks were cut asymmetrically, so left and right side rails were not anywhere near even. And yes, several of the reeds had bark torn along one upper edge.
To add insult to injury, D'Addario & Co. customer service has made no effort to return my calls (calls = more than one).
I'm grateful that I make 90% of my own reeds, starting with tube cane ... depending on a product like Rico's would be a reliable source of aggravation.
A.S.Abramovitz
Aaron's Clarinet Studio
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Author: GBK
Date: 2010-03-26 18:14
pplateau wrote:
> Similar experience; where do I write to Rico? write to Mark Nuccio?
Fixed it for you.
His design, his pet project.
He'd probably be VERY interested to know.
...GBK
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-03-27 00:42
"Hey Bob, i loved the Blue box (of 5) Grand Concert Thick blanks when they first came out... but i believe they changed the cut when they changed to boxes of 10 (red boxes), is this true?
dn"
Yes this is true. After I left Rico. Rico made a mistake here by changing the design. These reeds were designed for college level and professionals. Rico decided they needed very low strength reeds for musicians playing 2 strength reeds. In order to do this you have to cut the guts out of the reeds and they never played like the first designs. I kept telling everyone to forget about these players and recommend the Mitchell Lurie reeds for the less experienced players.
I was the person that set up those Grand Concert Thick reeds as well as the regular. The regular reeds came out first, followed by the thick blanks about 6 months later. Glad you liked them. I spent about a week adjusting the machine, making cams, things like that. I believe that was on the machine #10.
Before it was called the Grand Concert Thick reeds, I sent some to Mitchell Lurie. At that time there was corporate talk of having a thick cut reed for Mitchell. For whatever reason Rico decided to call these Grand Concert reeds.
I've always liked heavier reeds, so the owners of Rico allowed me to take some time and pretty much design the reed my way. My background was Interlochen Arts Academy and Peabody Conservatory, during these years I played the Morre' reeds. I played these reeds fo many years. The GC reeds were based on the Morre's.
I haven't played the Reserved reeds. I'll be blunt here. Rico uses pesticides on the cane. I got pretty sick from working there and finally found out they were using these chemicals. I won the first lawsuit against the actual pesticide companies, 5 companies in all. I'm still in the final stages of another suit against Rico themselves. Rico hasn't messed with me about stating these facts. My attorney advised me to say whatever the truth is. The funny part of this is I simply asked Rico to pay my medical bills. They refused! This is the main reason for leaving Rico. They told me to make a claim with Workers Comp. I'm sure I could have talked Rico into washing the cane, bu our conversations never reached that level. By the way, the owners retired and sold the company. I'm confident the owners would have solved this situation for the positive.
Some of these readers may wonder if they were exposed. The answer is yes. ALL of the cane was sprayed at least once, if not more. I'm not after everyone here to sue Rico, mainly because I played a lot of reeds every day. Most players only play 1 reed for about a week or longer.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2010-03-27 18:07
I guess the question asto the pesticides is that is the level high per individual reed - as in less than a piece of fruit? And if we soak out reeds in water, does that clean it off at all?
What's the level of exposure per reed?
And are all of the other reed companies also doing the same thing?
Or were they all and then stopped at a point? (law, etc).
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-03-27 22:04
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> I guess the question asto the pesticides is that is the level
> high per individual reed - as in less than a piece of fruit?
> And if we soak out reeds in water, does that clean it off at
> all?
>
> What's the level of exposure per reed?
>
> And are all of the other reed companies also doing the same
> thing?
>
> Or were they all and then stopped at a point? (law, etc).
Another good question would be what were/are the actual pesticides they use/used.
Some pesticides are more toxic to humans than others. One of the reasons DDT was used for so many years was that its toxicity to humans was relatively low. It was its effect on wildlife that led to its ban in much of the world.
Also some people are more susceptible to certain chemicals than others. For instance, some people are allergic to pyrethrins (commonly used pesticides based on chemicals produced by chrysanthemums).
Interestingly, the Rico people have a blog where they make the claim that no reed manufacturers use pesticide on reed cane because there is no need to:
http://ricoreeds.blogspot.com/
On the other hand, they stop short of explicitly stating that *they* don't use pesticides--they expect you to infer that they don't use pesticides from the fact that it is generally unnecessary to do so.
Vandoren and Gonzalez both explicitly claim their cane is pesticide free.
Also, the claim that there are no insects that target Arundo donax isn't entirely true. The USDA is doing research in South Texas on the use of insects as biological controls on A. donax, because it's considered an invasive species. Granted, the insects they are using come from Europe--they aren't native to the Americas--so what Rico is saying about pesticides being entirely unnecessary might actually be true for American-grown cane.
Post Edited (2010-03-27 22:31)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-03-28 00:19
I can't answer the questions about the potency of the pesticides. If anyone wishes to email me I'll give you the names of the pesticides used, based on my blood tests and the actual chemical tests I had done to the reeds. The reeds I had tested were right off of the line, and as old as 2 years.
Most of the cane Rico uses comes from Argentina and France. There are a few other places in the US, mainly California. All of the cane has to be treated with pesticides, including the US cane. Insects can distroy a crop. Again feel free in emailing me.
One of my huge fears is actually for the little kids just learning to play. Once the lawsuit is over, I will use the funds and do my very best to warn parents.
I read the blog about Rico. Mike Zucek is a really great guy. He was the marketing director for 20 years or so, then left Rico to work at Yamaha. Mike had left 3 years before I left Rico, so he may not have known about this, perhaps still doesn't know. I can't speak for Mike, other then he has always had my highest respect. Due to politics he may not know about the use of pesticides, because he wouldn't write something like this. I had a lot of fun hanging out with Mike and his wife Lous.
David, Rico used different pesticides than that of oranges and other products. Feel free in emailing me. In short, some of the pesticides found on the reeds and in my blood were oil based, which can remain on the reeds for many many years.
MRN, based on the pesticides used, there were many. Both gas form, oil based, and a combination of both. I can't answer your comment about someone being allergic. I'm not a doctor, nor a chemist. Without going into great detail I can say one of the chemicals used to mix with the pesticides is Methyl Bromide. This can kill anyone or anything. Cancer, blood disorders, seizures, are just a few of the side effects. Doesn't really matter if a person is allergic. Minor side effects include can be headaches, sinus issues, muscle stiffness, and a lot of other symptoms, but can turn in major issues such as cancer.
Bugs, insects, are very present in cane, including beatles, thus the reason for pesticides. I haven't tested any other cane from companies like Vandoren. It's expensive. About $1200 for 3 or 4 reeds. I can provide the name and place that will test the reeds.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2010-03-28 01:29
But do other manufacturers do it too?
Does Vandoren, and Gonzales do that also?
Why couldn't/wouldn't the FDA get involved to outlaw that practice - assuming that it is true. (as it's an oral product.....) and I do know that the FDA can't and doesn't regulate vitamins.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: donald
Date: 2011-04-28 01:20
worth mentioning that for the last 6 or 7 boxes of these i've opened there haven't been any chipped reeds, whereas when i first started using them there was at least one chipped reed in every box. They have obviously sorted out a problem that was causing this.
dn
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Author: William
Date: 2011-04-28 19:05
Chipped reeds, new from the box.....pesticides. Two more reasons that I am now playing a synthetic reed. Plus, every reed is consistant, no break-in period nor constant moistening is necessary, they last indefinately (some for two years in my case) and are always ready to play when I need them. As many have already discovered, synthetic reeds are the reeds of the future--and as many of you know, Forestone is my choice. For me, the sound is the same, if not better, once you have learned to focus it properly--and this takes a little time. Those of you who have only "tried" the Forestone once of twice have not given yourselves a true test of how well these reeds acutally play on the job. I have been using them since May, 2009, and now play them on all of my clarinets and saxophones. Sincerely, they allow me to play the music without having to "play" the reed. Think about it.........
btw--I've tried all of the Legere soprano reeds (some, for nearly a year) and much prefer the Forestone for quality of sound, especially in the upper register.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2011-04-29 00:30
I have been very pleased with the Reserve classics. They have been very consistent and have worked beautifully in a number of settings. They are easily some of the best reeds I have played.
FWIW- I have tried synthetics and have not yet found one that plays to my liking. I tried the Forestones for a time and never found one that I could even think about using for a rehearsal or performance.
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2011-04-29 02:12
Wow. This thread is a virtual Pandora's Box.
If there are concerns about pesticides used in one or more brands of reeds, I really want to find out more. While I would like to see all the facts before I give in to panic, I want to be sure I am not recommending a brand with a toxicity that would be irritating, at best, or prejudicial to one's health, at worst. I'm sure parents would be concerned about this...if they knew about the chemical treatment of certain reed brands.
If someone offered me a "regular" apple or an organic apple, the organic one would be my choice.
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Author: clarinetistra
Date: 2011-05-02 16:18
I wrote to Vandoren to ask if their reeds were organically grown- here's the reply I received:
"My name is Jim Metz and I am the marketing manager at Dansr inc, the sole US importer of Vandoren products. My colleagues in France asked that I respond to your email.
Our cane is all grown in the south of France, near the Mediterranean. We don’t use any chemicals – including insecticides or fertilizers – at all during the growing process. Unlike other well-known reed manufacturers, we don’t use chemicals (“stabilizing solutions” or otherwise) during the manufacturing process. All of our growing and manufacturing processes are 100% natural and have a very small carbon footprint.
If you have any other questions about how we make our reeds, please feel free to check out the FAQ section and the Videos section of the Vandoren website."
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Author: clairmusic
Date: 2011-05-04 03:17
those reeds are all I play on now after 20 yrs of vandorens. I've only had that prob. one time. luckly only two reeds were goners, enev so still frustrating. I am glad you like your behn mpc. he was an old instructor of mine few yrs ago. I've had mine for three.yrs now. the best mpc I've ever owned.
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