 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-12-11 23:19
I have a regular R-13 and vintage R-13 for trial. I have a problem fingering B natural using the left hand E/B pinky key, i.e., the note does not sound. It plays okay with the right hand pinky key. Since it happens on both R-13s, I assume the problem is me. I have short little fingers. I think I may have a problem reaching the pinky key, causing me to either slightly uncover the thumb hole or operate the register key incorrectly. I don't have this problem with the other make/model clarinets I've played. Does this mean that I'm not suited to the R-13, or something that I'll adjust to in time, or something else?
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-12-11 23:46
Correction - I don't have a reach problem with the regular R-13. Seems to be an adjustment problem, because other notes are a problem with the octave key, and I seem to have no probem reaching the pinky key.
I do seem to have the reach problem with the vintage. So, this is what I'm asking about.
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Author: Ai Li
Date: 2000-12-12 02:42
Um, sounds like a problem I had... In summary, it's supposed to be a common problem with new instruments, that the pads don't seat properly. My repair tech adjusted some and replaced others. One that was replaced is an open one, so he says it'll take time for the 'groove to sit' in the pad and playing will get easier with time, as the 'grooves are set'. I suggested holding it down with tape or something and he laughed and said it wasn't necessary if I played often enough for the problem to settle itself. It *is* much better now and I'm thankful for the advice I received.
(Background: I play 30 mins a day if I have that, longer if possible, but with a full time day job and kids...)
My post was at:
http://www.sneezy.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=31656&t=31656
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2000-12-12 10:48
When the right hand B works and the left hand one is reluctant it is definitely an adjustment problem, with many possible causes - poorly seated pads, key cups malaligned with tone holes, 'sloppy' pivots, badly adjusted linkages, loose key post, jamming lever-to-key linkage, high friction in the lever's (ie left hand 'key') pivot, etc. The problem almost always shows up with the left hand fingering first and is the most common symptom of maladjustment on a clarinet. It is also the most common fault to emerge with use even with a well adjusted clarinet, for the following reasons:
When you press the RH E/B key there is a solid linkage to the F/C pad but often quite a flexible linkage through the long rod to the E/B pad. Therefore the F/C pad gets more pressure, therefore more compression with use. So with use the F/C pad seals worse than the E/B pad when playing E/B.
Now, accepting this is the condition of maladjustment, 4 phenomena come into play:
1. When you use your left hand, because you are pushing the E/B 'key' (as opposed to the 'lever' that your finger actually contacts) UP, there is a slight tendency for flexing of the E/B spatular in a concave manner, so less pressure is transferred to the F/C crowsfoot than when you apply more direct pressure to the spatular with your right hand. Therefore the maladjustment shows up more.
2. Now assume the E/B pivot is 'sloppy'. When you use your RH you push the key down against the pivot screw. This extra travel transfers more pressure to the F/C key, which you want, to compensate for the maladjustment. When you use your LH you actually push the E/B key UP against the pivot screw. This means less travel transferred to the F/C pad, hence an enhanced leak.
3. Using the left hand involves applying pressure to an extra pivot (the E/B LEVER's one) and also to a linkage (to the E/B KEY) which is rather high in friction
All this extra friction with the left hand fingering means that there is less pressure transferred to the pads.
4. The leverage is usually greater anyway for the RH (ie distance from the end of the E/B key's spatular to the pivot axis) than for the left hand (basically the distance from the pivot axis to the link with the E/B lever) so more pressure is exerted on both pads using RH, which again compensates for maladjustment.
Another very common form of maladjustment is as follows: The 'outside' of the pad (ie furthest from the pivot) TRAVELS further than the 'inside'. Therefore the outside gets crushed more, and perhaps does not 'recover' as well as the inside. In time the outside leaks while the inside still closes firmly. Items 3 and 4 above show that more pressure is transferred to both the pads when using the RH. Therefore, with this extra pressure, the RH fiingering is more likely to overcome this maladjustment.
Several other factors may also be significant.
The significance of each of these phenomena will vary from instrument to instrument.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-12-12 11:14
Al Li / Gordon: Thanks guys. It is clear there is a problem with the clarinet(s). I didn't realize the complexity of the left hand pinky "key". Frustrating since I don't know a local repair tech, and the instruments are on trial so I need to deal with shipping costs, time, inconvenience, and the busy holiday season.
I have three clarinets for trial. I couldn't give the regular R-13 a fair try, because it has several notes that don't play. The vintage R-13 has the single problem with the left pinky key. The third trial clarinet, a Leblanc Infinite, plays nicely.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-12-12 17:15
Bill -
This adjustment almost always needs to be made, and tinkered with as the pads shape themselves to the cups. You should definitely not reject an instrument because if it. Any repair shop can adjust the mechanism in just a couple of minutes. They do it all the time -- it's probably the most frequent adjustment made on a clarinet.
The most likely cause of the lower keys getting out of adjustment is pushing on the keys and rods while assembling and disassembling the instrument. Always hold the lower joint so your fingers don't touch any of the lower keys or rods, and apply cork grease frequently.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-12-12 18:35
Author: Ken Shaw wrote:
Always hold the lower joint so your fingers don't touch any of the lower keys or rods, -------.
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This is a "trick" I have figured out, particularly when the joints are pretty tight. Actually, the vintage fits together pretty easily, so I don't think I messed it up. The Leblanc, which works fine, has a very tight joint, and I end up touching the rods. Thanks for the info Ken.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-12-14 23:37
Author: Bill wrote:
I do seem to have the reach problem with the vintage.
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I posted this topic. I think I solved the problem with the vintage. I had trouble reaching the left pinky E/B "key", and the note(s) sometimes didn't play. My left pink was "barely" touching the key with the left and right section finger holes aligned down the long axis of the clarinet. I adjusted the two sections so more of my pinky touched the key. The problem hasn't recurred. It only took a little "twist" off what I consider center.
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