 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: buit15
Date: 2010-03-24 13:44
In my continuing search for the "correct" for me mouthpiece for my vintage Buffet R13. my journey took me to Wright Music for a tryout of some of the Vandoren Mouthpieces recommended to me by Dave Gould at Vandoren and some other members of this board. In total, I tried 10 mouthpieces: two M13 Lires, three M15s, three M30s, one B40 Lire and one 5RV. After about an hour of back and forth, I kept gravitating to the M13 Lire's ease of play, although one of the M15's gave it a good battle. Next was the tuning test and here is where I was blown out of the water. The M13 Lire and all subsequent M series mouthpieces were incapable of tuning to 440. All came in tune at around 437. After a lengthy discussion and quite a bit of patience shown by the store's owner and obvious technical expert, I left the session understanding that these M series mouthpieces are "designed" to play flat. Quite disappointing to me to learn this, as the M13 Lire is such an ease of playing improvement over the 5RV Lire I have played for 4 years. I purchased the M13 Lire anyway since I need to go in to the city for a playing test with Guy Chadash as he reviews the overhaul he did on my Buffet and we try to find the correct combination of mouthpiece/ligature/reed and now possibly a barrel to put the clarinet back into tune (if I keep the M13 L as my primary mouthpiece). Anyone out there with more info on this M series mystery or any other mouthpiece recommendations for me, please jump in. Thanks.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2010-03-24 14:13
I'm sure Mr Chadash will fix things for you. I would suggest shortening the mouthpiece 1-2mm. I had Greg James (Toronto) do it on an old Penzel Mueller. I still use a 65mm barrel with it. I have lots of barrels and still chose to go the shortening route. This is a pretty complicated subject with tapers, volume and length issues. I just went with what works.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2010-03-24 14:32
buit15 wrote:
>"Anyone out there with more info on this M series mystery or any other mouthpiece recommendations for me, please jump in".<
Use shorter 64 mm barrel.
Vytas Krass
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Professional clarinet technician
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: A Brady
Date: 2010-03-24 14:53
Clearly you will need to try shorter barrels to play on this particular model of Vandoren. Different mouthpieces will tune with more standard barrels; since you are having Guy do work anyway, I would highly recommend trying the CH mouthpiece, a joint production of Chadash Clarinet and Chris Hill. My CH tunes beautifully to 440 with a 66 mm barrel, and to 442 with a 65.
AB
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-03-24 15:59
The CH mouthpiece sounds like a good option to me as well. From what I've been told, these mouthpieces feature a "smaller" tone chamber and hence tune more in line with the physics of the clarinet.
Of course the price tag is about 3 times that of the Vandoren.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed
Date: 2010-03-24 16:10
You mentioned that you like the ease of the M13 mouthpiece, the CH mouthpieces I have tried, while very good, have a different resistance. The M13 series are very good, but sometimes a little low. I agree with Vytas that the best option would be a shorter barrel.
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Author: A Brady
Date: 2010-03-25 00:17
Yes, I would agree that the CH has a different resistance level than the Vandoren, but with properly balanced reeds and a nonbiting style of embouchure, the intonation and tone (obviously depending on the player) are lovely. My main point is that modification of a low pitch mouthpiece, either through shortening or using non-standard length barrels, may be a bit unnecessary considering the excellent options available in mouthpieces these days. To each his own!
AB
AB
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Author: buit15
Date: 2010-03-31 19:28
As a follow up to all the suggestions, we had our visit today with Guy Chadash (very nice guy with great suggestions for my playing improvement and awesome equipment knowledge) and he fitted the R13 with one of his 65 MM barrels and all is right with the world (at least the tuning and resistance portion of it on my clarinet). Final solution to my initial resistance issue on the vintage R13 was an M13 Lire with a Rovner Dark ligature with Vandoren V12 3.5 reeds and with a Chadash 65 MM barrel. Final $ fix came in ~ $350. Well worth the time and effort for me.
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Author: claaaaaarinet!!!!
Date: 2010-03-31 23:52
I've played and M13 Lyre the past four years, and while I never had a problem tuning to 440 or 442, I did struggle with throat tones that tended flat relative to the other registers. Recently, I've been using a B40 Lyre (a big change, I realize), and one of the up sides with it is that I don't have to worry about the thoats being flat. I think the "13" series mouthpieces are great, but as with any mouthpiece you have to be aware of their tendencies.
Post Edited (2010-03-31 23:53)
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2010-04-01 00:20
I'm coming around to Simon Aldrich's point of view on this "13 series" problem. It is simply impractical to use these mouthpieces. They can play extremely well and mostly well in tune, but it's a battle USUALLY LOST.
With a shorter barrel (65 or 64) and\or shortening the mouthpiece and putting it with a professional player it can be played with very good intonation. I would say it wouldn't be done easily, especailly higher than 440 (which most ensembles end up playing, even if they start at 440 it usually creeps up).
As Simon said many times on the other thread about these mouthpieces, it's professionally dangerous and not something you want your students to have to compensate for.
All of the 440 mouthpieces from custom makers (that I have tried, which is most of them) have much better pitch across the instrument and don't fall ill to this throat tone flatness. Vandoren just went too far in their attempts to make the mouthpiece play lower (lowered the baffle too much, among other things).
I prefer the M13 lyre facing over the M15 and see why so many people like these mouthpieces. If I were to go back to a vandoren mouthpiece, I would buy an M15 that isn't a 13 series and have the facing altered to an M13 lyre facing.
Generally, a harder reed (V12 4 or harder) will keep the pitch up easier, as well as a tighter jaw pressure. I prefer a soft and relaxed jaw with a softer reed (v12 3 to 3 1\2). This provides a much more stable intonation and more colorful tone across the range of the instrument. Also, response and clarity of articulation and sound are much easier to produce in a predictable way. Playing a 13 series mouthpiece with my style is just NOT going to work.
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