 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SerendipityG3A
Date: 2010-03-19 21:56
I hope this isn't too long.
First of all, I've been playing the clarinet for 11 continuous years (three different soprano clarinets, not including an E-flat soprano that I quit playing because I couldn't get it to play in tune with itself). I'm now sticking to a single clarinet thinking that maybe the minute differences between clarinets may be holding back my progress.
But now, I'm still not getting any better. I've been asking my mom for clarinet lessons ever since I started, but we just can't afford them. Nobody in my family plays the clarinet either except for me, so I can't ask for help. I've been thinking of switching to a German alto flute (because it requires no embouchure training) or a normal alto flute (because I like the sound of it even though I'll need to learn a new embouchure). I have played around on a (normal) soprano flute, and I know it's not easy. My sister plays the flute though, and she can teach me.
Alright, here's the problem with the clarinet: I sound worse all the time. My ability to play smoothly when crossing between registers is inconsistent. My mouth seems to get sore quickly. My clarinet has recently been serviced and given a clean bill of health, but I still can't play it any better. I normally practice for about 2 hours daily, but without a clarinet teacher, I'm afraid I'm just getting better at playing it wrong.
Also, I'm getting some conflicting information about the relationship between a proper clarinet embouchure and properly aligned teeth. I've read that you're not supposed to bite when you play, and yet I have a dental hygienist who happens to play the clarinet, and she told me that my teeth aren't straight enough to ever get a good tone. If you don't use your teeth to play the clarinet, why should my teeth be holding me back? Anyway, if I can't afford clarinet lessons, I definitely can't afford to get my teeth realigned. Of course, I don't know if playing a regular flute requires straight teeth either, so switching to that could land me back in the same boat. My teeth aren't sticking out in all directions making me look like a freak or anything.
Everybody in my family wants me to keep playing the clarinet, but are always complaining about how bad I sound. I would enjoy playing the clarinet if I could learn to sound good, but I have to know I'm not wasting my time trying to practice. Maybe after all these years, clarinet just isn't my instrument.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-03-19 22:27
Oy veh, I'm sorry about your frustration...anyhow, I'll try to help.
First of all, if your mouth is getting tired too quickly, you might be using too hard a reed. A reed's strength should loosely match the mouthpiece used, and of course the player's abilities. Reed strength has nothing to do with "player level".
Per your DH - sorry, that's rubbish. Unless your teeth really look like a burnt-down picket fence, their alignedness has little to do with success in playing. After all, there's the lip between the reed and the teeth, and the teeth should only so much support the lip. The average lip is thick enough to compensate for slightly irregular teeth beneath. And it only takes one upper tooth to rest the mouthpiece against it. (You have a mouthpiece patch glued to the upper side of the beak?)
Third, the mouthpiece. You didn't tell us what you're using now. Is it a "stock" mouthpiece that came with the instrument? It might be an idea to invest into a snout-friendly allrounder like a Fobes Debut, Hite Premiere or Behn Ouverture. All are cheap (less than $40), produce a decent tone and are not very demanding re reeds and embouchure.
Now...your teacher...do you have some high school with a band within reach? I know that there are always some students around who might be inclined to teach others in exchange for naturalia like literature lessons, homework help, babysitting their siblings, ... needn't always be a teacher in the stricter sense, and it needn't always be money. A bit of your time for a bit of their time...
Good luck!
--
Ben
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Author: SerendipityG3A
Date: 2010-03-19 23:10
Ben,
Thanks for your reply. I've also recently replaced the mouthpiece. It's made by Yamaha. The mouthpiece is nice and round, unlike the mouthpiece that came with the instrument where there are ridges on either side of the reed.
Reeds: I'm currently using 2.5, but I've used 1.5 and 3.5 in the past, both a long time ago, so I don't remember clearly what the experience with them was. Perhaps it's worth another try. I did think it had to do with skill level, so I thank you for setting me straight.
Good news, btw, about the teeth! They don't look that bad. I think you have to look pretty closely at them to see that there's something wrong with them.
Something I forgot to mention that is probably contributing to my frustration: The repair shop guy put my keys on in such a way that I have to press them really hard in order to get the pads to close. For example, my pinky has to press really hard on the key, and my pinky isn't a very strong finger. Besides, it's hard to press hard when I'm playing fast note changes. I've already brought my clarinet back to the shop to have him adjust the keys, and I tried my clarinet before I left the shop. His excuse was that a lot of players are what he calls "key mashers" and prefer to press really hard. Well, after he adjusted them, everything seemed to be fine until I got it home. There, I found myself with the same problem, albeit to a lesser extent. Is there a way for me to adjust them myself so I don't have to keep making the trip until he gets them right?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-03-19 23:27
Ouch. "key mashers". Ouch. Even if people liked to use "gorilla grip" to play (they don't, really) doesn't save your repair guy from setting up the instrument so that its pads close at a reasonably light touch.
This is just a lame excuse for shoddy workmanship.
From what you're telling my #1 concern would be with the proper action of your instrument. If you can't operate it without squeezing, even the best mouthpiece or reed will be able to compensate for that.
Now, reseating pads isn't rocket science, but it isn't for the faint of heart either. I'm not shy versus technology, but it took me three or four attempts to get my first clarinet halfway right. Definitely not something I'd recommend a first-timer with only one instrument at hand.
On the other hand, this is a skill that can be acquired, and it can be well-invested time, especially when one dwells in the wilderness, at the whim of a key mashing repair person.
Is that the only shop around? If you tell us where you live, others might have a better suggestion, even if that involves a 2hr drive...
--
Ben
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2010-03-20 01:44
I second Ben's advice. It should not be hard to push down on keys. If, at your complaint, the technician suggests that it should indeed be hard, it's time to find a new technician.
It does really sound like you'd benefit greatly from lessons. Would it be a possibility to afford just one or two lessons per month?
Heck, 11 years and having trouble with stuff like that has me half inclined to offer lessons over webcam.
In any case, getting your clarinet fixed up properly should go far in resolving exhaustion and register issues.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-03-20 02:10
Please contact me offline.
I'm not against you trying to play other instruments, in fact I think you should. Most of the professional studio musicians can play the clarinet, the sax, and the flute really well. The ones that started playing the clarinet first usually have an easier time learning to play the sax and the flute.
You didn't say what grade level you are in. Maybe talk with the local high school or middle school band directors and ask if he/she can help you out. Often this is to their advantage, because you may be an asset to the band.
When playing in a group you will see yourself getting better just by hearing the people in the clarinet section. As you get to know these people maybe you can practice some of the parts together. You will be amazed how good you will become.
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Author: Sarah Elbaz
Date: 2010-03-20 07:10
I am alittle confused. You play 11 years? your age should be around 20- can't you WORK and pay for a clarinet lesson once a mounth?
You play TWO hours every day? You can't afford lessons but you could afford an Eb clarinet?
I think that you can get alot of help here- but we should know the exact infotmation to help you.
Sarah
Post Edited (2010-03-20 07:12)
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Author: reddog4063
Date: 2010-03-20 07:43
sounds like your setup is suspect, have you checked for leaks and/or alignment?
Do you currently play in a band? What is your teachers input? Make friends with the section leader and hang out for pizza and a little playing, they can give you good tips.
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Author: SerendipityG3A
Date: 2010-03-20 13:06
I haven't much time right now because I'm on my way to a wedding, but I'll answer a few of these questions:
Sometimes I write too much and my posts get so long that nobody reads them, so I was trying to limit myself.
I was in a band where I was third clarinet, but I quit about a month ago because I couldn't play well enough. All 11 years of my playing experience, I've been and still am in an ensemble lead by my dad who also writes the music and doesn't know anything about reed instruments. He plays the trumpet. I'm able to re-join the band any time I like. I'm thinking about trying to get my clarinet fixed up properly and giving it another try, and I'll probably be able to join up again then. It has a pretty large clarinet section, and the section leader is really nice.
I'm trying harder than ever to get a job right now, and I hope to have one soon. The clarinet isn't the only thing I can't afford, and I'm such a burden to my parents.
When I bought the E-flat clarinet, I was being an idiot and thought I could teach myself. It's so out of tune that really it was a waste of my money, though it was only $200, and that was several years ago and I probably didn't know the value of money.
I'm out of time. I'll write more later if there are more questions, which I think there are. Thanks for your help everybody! You're already helping me a lot!
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-03-20 13:19
If your ensemble has a large clarinet section with a nice leader, the first thing I'd do is ask one of them if you could have an hour or two with them in private, so they can check your instrument and suggest ways of improving your playing. They might be pleasantly surprised to hear that you're serious about playing and don't just sit there to please your dad (or whatever they think your motivation might be). So do make use of these connections.
--
Ben
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Author: SerendipityG3A
Date: 2010-03-21 00:55
The band that I quit has the clarinet section with the nice leader. The ensemble only has one clarinet, and that's me. We've been trying to convince my sister's husband to pick up the clarinet and join us since he played clarinet in high school, but he says he has no time for an instrument.
My B-flat clarinet is a Selmer. My mom bought it for me used from a school auction when I first started. It's not wood, but it seems to be a nice clarinet aside from the way the keys are set.
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Author: jacoblikesmusic
Date: 2010-03-21 04:02
According to page 682 of The Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy, "Yes".
So there you have it. Play clarinet!
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-03-21 23:20
What kind of Selmer is it?
What model of mouthpiece are you using (not just a Yamaha....which one)? Check for model names or numbers on each of the above.
What brand of reeds are you using? It may be that the reeds are badly mismatched to the characteristics of the mouthpiece. Also the quality of the reeds may be suspect. Bad reads make it much harder to produce a good sound.
When you answer the questions folks have posed here, please try to be as specific as possible and give lots of details. It will make it easier for folks to form more useful suggestions.
You say you have played for 11 years. What is your age now?
Jeff
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Author: SerendipityG3A
Date: 2010-03-22 00:50
Sorry, I don't know what all is relevant. Like I said, I usually write too much, then nobody reads it. I don't wanna give too much information, but I also know the importance of giving enough information.
The clarinet says USA CL300 on it. Is that what you are asking for?
The mouthpiece just says Yamaha Japan on it. I can't find anything else.
The reeds I'm currently using are Rico.
I should also mention that the information I've gotten so far has been very helpful, and I'm starting to sound much better on my clarinet. Sometimes I suddenly can't play a B at the bottom of the upper register to save my life, but after I take a break from playing my instrument, I pick it up again and am able to play it fine.
I've noticed that when I go from A to B on my way up the C major scale, my mouth wants to narrow, but if I keep it open, I can jump into the new register without a pause in sound. Or at least very little pause. I think at this point, most of my problem is my lack of skill, which will come with practice, and a lack of technique, which will come with joining the band and learning from the other clarinet players in my section.
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2010-03-22 01:28
If you're using the plain orange box Ricos, you might wanna try something higher quality than those. It's also possible that your reed is closing up when you're trying to play the upper clarion (especially the high B and C) because it is too soft of a reed. I've played on too soft of orange box Ricos before, and the sound was QUITE unpleasant.
I think will hear dramatic improvements in tone quality if you switch to a higher quality reed. Higher quality reeds, in my experience, last longer (if broken in and cared for properly) than the plain Ricos and sound much much better. I've had good experiences with Vandoren Traditional, V12, 56 Rue Lepic, Rico Reserves, Grand Concert Select Evolution, and Gonzalez FOF (there are a lot more other good reeds out there too, but I haven't tried them yet). All of these were a lot better sounding than the regular Ricos.
Edit: Oops, I just realized you said your B at the bottom of the clarion range. Perhaps it's a leak in your clarinet then?
Post Edited (2010-03-22 01:54)
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Author: RoBass
Date: 2010-03-22 07:56
One hint regarding the dental problem: There are some teeth protectors outside. Please search the web or special stores for such protectors!
They were designed to protect the lower lip inside against the sharp teeth tips, but they could be used to egalize the teeth geometry too. Could be a support, but your problem would be more the tension of the lip itself. I know some clarinetsits, with teeth looking like a horse or sheep, but they play a really fine and articualted tone - without protectors.-)
I only can recommend some lessons. It's expensive, but it's worth every penny!
kindly
Roman
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2010-03-23 10:09
OK, here's what we can try remotely down t'internet:
1. Throw out the Rico. They're fine for people starting out but rarely any good for players seeking a good tone. Scrape some pennies together and get a couple of Rico Royal or Vandoren Traditional. Many music shops sell these singly. And they don't last forever so get a reed fund going.
2. If the reeds are too hard you'll hear mainly air (or you'll get a sore mouth very quickly). If the reeds are too soft you'll probably sound something like a demented bumblebee, and you might have trouble playing in tune. You might have to buy several strengths to get this right, sorry!
3. Take the right amount of mouthpiece in your mouth. Less will give a cleaner sound but too little will strangle it. More will give a bigger sound but too much will sound as rough as a honking goose. You have to get this right all the time.
4. Some people rest their teeth directly on the mouthpiece (but they hold the mouthpiece with the lip). Some people stick a little patch to the top of the mouthpiece and rest on that. Some people put some lip between their teeth and the mouthpiece. One of these will feel natural; that's a place to start.
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Author: Bartmann
Date: 2010-03-23 14:53
Serendipity,
First of all I have to suggest at least a couple of month’s worth of clarinet lessons. You must find out if you’ve been making some mistakes all these years that have been keeping you from excelling at clarinet.
To pay for them ask your parents to not give you a birthday and Christmas present for a year; they can give you a card instead that says: “Enjoy your clarinet lessons.”
It is very valuable to have music making as a hobby. It will outlast many friendships and you will have it for the rest of your life. Even your brothers and sisters won’t matter as much. Once you leave the house and are on your own, their influence on your life will decrease significantly. So don’t limit yourself and your music making based on their opinions. It’s easier to criticise than to create.
Braces: I can say from experience that after my braces came off, it was easier for me to play clarinet and I sounded better; more focused and a bit more tonal flexibility. However there are many excellent players with crooked teeth so don’t let this be a constraint on your playing.
As for trying a new musical instrument, the clarinet does have its particular challenges. The embouchure can die very easily and that limits the amount of practice time. You face a dilemma: if you use soft reeds you can play longer, but then your sound very nasily, raspy, and not appealing. If you use hard reeds, you sound great for a while, but your embouchure will die very quickly.
Several years ago I added the flute as a second instrument. For me it was much easier to excel on the flute. I really took to the flute so that now after four years and weekly lessons, I play the flute as well as the clarinet that I’ve been playing for over 20 years.
The challenge with the clarinet is that much of your sound depends on your setup: reeds and mouthpiece. Naturally in addition to much practice, the quality of your tone depends on the match of your mouthpiece and reeds. Often it costs a lot of money to explore new equipment.
With the flute your tone quality is less dependent on equipment. You can modify your tone by altering the shape, velocity, and angle of your air stream. You can alter your sound by covering more or less embouchure hole. You can alter your sound by shaping your lips and altering the tension. You can alter your tone by changing the position of your tongue with different vowel sounds. Moreso than with the clarinet, altering the shape of your tongue results in much greater variation of tone with the flute. So there are lots of ways to modify your sound that are not based on equipment changes.
What makes the flute exciting is that you can change one of these elements and hear an immediate difference. This makes the exploration of the ideal tone fun, easy, and inexpensive. You will also note that rather than striving for an ideal tone, like you would the clarinet, and then building tonal variations from your ideal tone, with the flute you can create several ideal tones, and build tonal variations from each of those ideal tones.
It could be fun to explore the flute with some basic instruction, this may satisfy your curiosity. You may find that the flute is more to your liking, or it may strengthen your love for the clarinet. Either way you will have some resolution.
Bartmann
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Author: SerendipityG3A
Date: 2010-03-26 15:34
This is all very valuable information to me, and I'm pretty sure I'm not quitting the clarinet! I think I would like to try the flute some day, but for now, I plan to focus entirely on the clarinet. My mom tells me I sound much better! I don't know what it was that did it. Maybe a combination of everything. Or maybe she's just trying to encourage me so that I won't quit. I notice my dad constantly adjusting his tuning slide on his trumpet when he's playing with me. Maybe when I get better, I can focus more on playing in tune. Maybe I need a more expensive instrument, but I do think I can make the instrument I already have sound more in tune if I keep practising.
Thank you everybody for your kind advice!
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Author: cjshaitan
Date: 2010-03-28 04:59
Hi Serendipity,
I think you have made the right choice. It's obvious from you posts that you are not meant to play clarinet. I think that your self realisation of this will lead to a better life for you. Besides there are so many other things you could be investing your time where you might be successful even if music wasnt for you
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