 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-03-06 14:16
Bad news for musicians in the USA. And yet more and more students are coming out of our conservatories looking for symphony jobs that are being down graded or eliminated yearly. It's a sad state indeed. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: ww.player
Date: 2010-03-06 23:34
Ed, I have been reading your postings and agree completely with your point of view. I have been saying the same thing myself for many years about all areas of music performance and schooling.
People argue that the marketplace (supply and demand) will eventually cause a correction between the number of graduates and job opportunities in every discipline, but I just don't think that's true in music. Too many young musicians make the decision to major in music with their hearts and not their heads.
So, let's take the discussion one step further. Like the saying goes, "People always complain about the weather but no one ever does anything about it." So, what can be done about this?
It seems to me that it should start with a sense of responsibility by the institutions of higher learning to their students to be sure that they not only provide training but also assure that students will have a realistic chance at a career using that training. This would imply some type of quota system be used. It could be something like requiring 10 music ed majors for every performance major. It might also call for extensive career counseling (do not major in music unless you will be happy being a music teacher).
As both a player and professor, you would seem to be in a better position than most to do something about this. So, what do you think can realistically be done? Can we call for a summit of professional music educators in the US with an eye towards demanding self-imposed limits on music majors by colleges and universities? And, if successful, wouldn't a lot of these teachers be putting themselves out of work?
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2010-03-07 00:56
Several weeks ago, Ed posted an excellent message about music education in America and about his wife's experiences teaching music in Baltimore. Music teaching jobs are still out there, but in this tough economy, plenty of music teachers are being laid off or switched to other subject areas.
WW.player asks, "So what can be done about this?"
Here's what I'd like to see, and some universities are doing it. Strongly encourage music ed. students to become certified to teach another subject as well, and don't make them jump through hoops or face a lot of red tape in order to take the classes necessary to do it.
Some universities offer a BA in music degree which is a little less intense than the usual BM, and this is a great idea. Set these programs up (I think some universities do) so that students can take plenty of business, science, and other non-music courses. Make it possible for these students to take some education classes if they wish. If a student is a very talented performer, he/she can always go on to get a masters in performance. If he/she is attracted to education, offer an accelerated program to make it possible. If a non-music career is the choice, the undergrad credits in other areas could make it possible for the student to apply for graduate programs in other areas (medicine, law, accounting, business, etc.).
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2010-03-07 05:41
I can't speak to the reasons why all this is going on, what will happen, what should happen, etc. All I know is that each year several thousand high school clarinetist enter colleges, universities, and conservatories with the idea that they are going to graduate with performance degrees and then work as full-time professional musicians.
Where do they get these ideas? Who perpetuates them and hides the stark realities? Misleading marketing by the academic establishments and teachers who either outright lie to their students about the real probabilities or who simply stay mum because they're afraid to tell it like it is for fear that ambitions may be crushed.
Shame on those clarinet teachers and clarinet profs. who give unrealistic hope to students and who don't educate as fully as they should when the question of a career in music surfaces.
Shame, especially, on conservatories, etc., that strongly imply, in their recruitment and in their advertisements, that study at their organizations will lead to employment, much less fame and glory.
If students become performance majors for any reason other than to become better musicians because they love music, they're in it for the wrong reason. Unfortunately, it seems that not enough of "us" tell them that...even once.
B.
Post Edited (2010-03-07 05:43)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-03-07 15:31
"Shame on those clarinet teachers and clarinet profs. who give unrealistic hope to students and who don't educate as fully as they should when the question of a career in music surfaces" as stated above by bmcgar. It's interesting because Ken Shaw has an interesting statement from when he studied with Kal Opperman in a posting here titled "Legendary Teachers".
When I went to in the late 50s, early 60s, there were probably 30 or so orchestra's in the USA, now there are probably about 50, though a few have folded in the past few years and you can't make a good living in at least a third of those today. I'm guessing that there were probably about 20 schools in the US then that offered a performance degree in music of any consequence. Again I'm guessing, we probably now have at least a 100 that offer that degree, I may be off a dozen or so either way. My point, we graduate many more students looking for a career in a field that simply has not kept up with the jobs available, not ever close.
Music is an art form and it's understandable why so many people want to become musicians, they just have to realize that only a very few of the very best will make a living from performance, and then there's a bit of luck at being at the right place at the right time.
One problem is that every school is trying to fill their teachers studios so they all compete in their recruiting. The other problem is that in most cases teachers are probably are not being honest with their students. We all feel we can take an average student and make them into a great player. Well, it doesn't always work that way and even if it did, there simply are not enough jobs for them to compete for.
Several years ago one of my students wrote in their teacher-student evaluation that Mr. Palanker would have many more students playing professionally if he would not be so honest with them about how difficult it was to get a job (I
paraphrased). I've always been honest with my students about how difficult it was to get a job, that they have to practice as hard as possible, learn all the clarinets, and branch out into other possible ways to earn a living in music. Teaching, instrument repair, recording etc. theory, music history etc. I never discouraged a student from trying to be the best they can be but I've always felt that I had to be honest. I did the same thing when parents would ask me about the chances of their son or daughter making a living as a clarinetist. Yes, most students need to go for their dream so they don't regret it later in life, but they need to be realistic as well so they know what they're in for. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Ryan K
Date: 2010-03-07 15:45
Its a little disheartening to see players just searching for Orchestral jobs. There are so many other ways to make a living as a performer. My current teacher is a Member of Alarm Will Sound (new music chamber group), and she's having a great time doing that. To get by, she's teaching at small colleges, and giving recitals when she can. I'm sure theres plenty of stories just like this, and plenty of potential to create more. The orchestra isn't the end of the story.
Ryan Karr
Dickinson College
Carlisle, PA
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Author: William
Date: 2010-03-07 16:07
Music is a people business. They are the ones that decide what they want, not the musicians, teachers or colleges. In spite of recent advances in public school music education offerings--and program cut backs--public opinion is what it is. Simon and Garfunkel are coming to our town in a few weeks and ticket prices are, IMHO, out of sight. Yet, they will pack our local area venue while our very fine, pro level symphony orchestra has to go out and beg for patrons. Sorry to sound so negative, but decline in concert attendance for classical musical events simply reflects public demand--and as a former music educator that has tried, and apparently failed to fine tune the publics artistic awareness and appreciation, I do not think that there is much any of us pro classical musicians can do about it. We must simply hang in there and offer the best that we can, putting the joy of musical performance above the need to make money doing it. So you want to play the clarinet for a living--better also learn to operate heavy machinery on the side. It's a liv'n, kid.........
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2010-03-07 16:43
Ed, do you believe that most college music professors are not as honest as you? If so, why? I have yet to meet a professional musician teaching at the college level who didn't have the same (healthy) attitude as you. After all, most of them have been through the rat race.
On the other hand, I see the opposite side of the coin -- students who have no aptitude (or, for that matter, interest) in accounting but who choose it as a major simply because they have heard there are high paying jobs a-plenty in the field. Whatever happened to college as a place for students to get away from home, mature and learn how to think. (Some good perspectives in the link I have posted below regarding the evolution of colleges and universities into glorified trade schools.)
The good news is that major coursework actually makes up a relatively small percentage of a student's learning experience. An extensive discussion with people weighing in on both sides of the issue (with, IMO, insightful comments) here:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/460187-how-many-music-voice-performance-majors-find-jobs.html
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2010-03-07 17:45
Let's take a look back to when a student makes the decision to major in music -- most often this occurs back in high school. Why would I blame the college professor for not being honest with their student? It's their responsibility to teach the student the trade. It's the high school counselor and the parents and, of course, the student him/herself that needs to help form a smart decision.
Two problems are encountered here. High school counselors typically have little musical background, especially regarding the business of music. Student says "I really want to be a professional musician!" Counselor gives advice on the path to college choices and that's it when, arguably, they should be asking more pertinent questions to help the student make a more responsible choice on career paths.
But you might ask about the music director/teachers. A fair amount of blame has to be placed there but I must give them a little slack for the reason that they have so many things - ensembles, courses, administrative things, fear of job security, etc. - on their plate that you wonder how effective his advice could possibly be with so many things on his mind. I worded this a little immaturely but I think my point is evident.
The fact remains that the student makes the final decision. That person needs to be fully aware that they have a better than 50% chance of having to scrape for a living for part, if not all, of their musical career. It's really just that simple. Supply and demand. If I have a position that one person will take for $30K and another for $100K with equal musical skill, I'm going to take $30K every time. And for every $100K player out there, as you know, hundreds (literally) are waiting in the wings to take that person's spot. It's cut throat and the nature of the beast. And this only applies to those who actually HAVE true orchestral/band playing ability out of college. I feel bad for the hundreds of people graduating every year that don't have an ounce of marketable musical abilities that have been told their whole lives that they are an amazing musician. There, the responsibility must lie with the high school teachers who can change the direction of an aspiring musician. Once you're in college, I question the ability for students to switch out of it when their whole heart and soul is pitted in having a career in music not to mention the initial financial investment.
Ah, the woes of a musician. This is the difficulty of the entertainment industry. If we keep our mindset in perspective and realize that we as musicians are entertainers at the most fundamental level, it makes the lumps a little easier to swallow.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-03-07 22:35
I'm not blaming the professors, that's the way life is. You have a position, a job, that requires filling your studio so you have to recruit. I'm sure there are many clarinet teachers that tell it like it is, especially if they're asked but I know some that do not volunteer the facts without being asked. Let's face it, if you accepted a student and by the 2nd year or so they just aren't cutting it you should tell them that they're not going to ever to be able to compete for a job. I would like to assume that many, of not most, teachers do, I'd like to think they do. If a teacher doesn't encourage their students to learn bass clarinet and Eb as well they are doing them a disservice. They should even encouraging them to learn to play different styles of music. I heard of some teachers that won't allow their students to play the sax. And it is true, there are other ways to make a living playing other than in a symphony, but that's also difficult to make a living at. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: William
Date: 2010-03-08 15:05
I think ESP is right on. Undergrad clarinet students should be encouraged to have experiance playing Eb soprano and bass instruments. Doubles--sax, flute, oboe or bassoon--should not be discouraged, but recommended for enrichment study. I would also add the study and practice of multiple articulation skills for students like me who just could not single tongue fast enough. For my 5 yrs of clarinet performance study, the only alternative suggestion was always, "slur two, tongue two" if you can't keep up. I just could never tongue that William Tell Overture until I learned a form of double-tongue technique (many years after college). What do you think, ESP??
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-03-08 15:36
Hi William, I think all students should learn to single tongue as clean and fast as possible and not rely on double tonguing at an early stage. With that said, at some point in their studies I do think it's a good idea to experiment with double tonguing especially if they can't single tongue very fast. It should not be used as a crutch though but comes in very handy when needed. The problem is that many teachers, especially orchestra players that teach, do not double tongue so they can't teach it themselves though there are many articles on the subject today.
When I was a student, 50s-60s, almost no one double tongued. We used to say it wasn't possible but that's changed. It is also becoming more important in playing contemporary music and as I stated before a student should learn to play all styles of music to make a living. So the short answer is, yes but not until a student has mastered single tonguing as well as possible first. ESP
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Author: OldClarinetGuy
Date: 2010-03-08 16:27
My son was a clarinet performance major., then he went to law school. I don't beleive he ever intended to become a professional musician, but the major kept him focused and he loved to play. He was clearly one of the best high school players in the state where we lived in at the time, but so were all the other students in his university studio.
I reject the idea that teachers/professors are not honest. Furthermore, I think this is really the job of the parents and the student to talk this through and be realistiic about it.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-03-09 00:56
This is for OldclarinetGuy. I never said that most teachers/professors aren't honest. I believe there are some that are very honest and some that just avoid talking about it because it's the way they make their living. I doubt it if any respectful teacher would ever lie about it, that's not what I'm saying at all. I just think that many avoid the subject unless directly confronted by the student or parent. You would be amazed at how many students and parents have no idea, none at all, how difficult it is to make a living playing the clarinet. I've been shocked by what some students think. When there's about one orchestra job for about every hundred applicants every student needs to know what it takes to be able to succeed in this profession. That way they can branch out to help them succeed. I've always said that I'm grateful for the service bands in the USA, they probably employ more clarinetists then all the orchestras put together in the US. ESP
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-03-09 01:25
If it makes any of the aspiring musicians out there happier (it shouldn't), in the past couple of years it has been becoming nearly as difficult to find a non-musical job in just about any field, as to get a musical gig. This is a very tough economy we are living in. I don't know what I'd tell a kid if he/she asked me if they should become a musician, when the unemployment ranks are filling up with recent graduates having law degrees, medical degrees, accounting and business degrees, engineering degrees, you name it!
I made my decision in high school to pursue engineering as a career, and play music as an avocation or hobby on the side. I knew then that I didn't have the talent and the drive to make a living solely as a musician, and now (35 years later) I'm convinced it was one of the best decisions I ever made. I've had and continue to have a wonderful time playing music (mostly the types of music I LIKE to play), without the pressure of trying to support myself and my family on the income.
How could I feed my kids (not to mention myself) if I had to beat out the likes of Ricardo Morales, etc. to get a job?
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-03-09 12:52
I also made the decision early not to try for a career in music, in part because several members of my family were career musicians and I could hear the difference between their abilities and mine! But I practiced hard anyway, not out of wild ambition but because I enjoyed practicing, loved music, loved the social life (made some of my best friends in childhood music groups) and thought that music somehow helped me to focus my thoughts and concentrate during the rest of the day. By practicing as a child and adolescent, I could set myself up for a lifetime of making music privately. There's always more to learn. These are all positive goals that parents and teacher can encourage in students, without giving false hopes.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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