 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CornodiBasetto
Date: 2010-02-24 19:05
I don't usually bother with forums, I run the Uk's largest second hand clarinet dealership. I don't have the time or energy to put digit to keyboard, but this is different. A valued customer just sent me 2 Ridenour products to sell for him: A Bass to low Eb and a Lyriqiue Artist Bb Clarinet. I had read with interest the Ridenour website, and expected great or at least decent instruments. What a disappointment: The Bass clarinet is inferior to the student models of any other reputable manusfacturer, despite the fact that the Ridenour features a double over blowing mechanism. The second register is tight and constricted in response.
The Bb clarinet is no way comparable with professional Grenadilla wood instruments, it sound just like a cheap resin instrument.
No wonder my client is selling these on!
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-02-24 19:25
A fair number of people would disagree with you. But then, as you say, you probably can't be bothered to read what they might have to say. We'll just have to leave you and your client to your own levels of personal greatness, while the rest of us slog along in the mire.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2010-02-24 19:45
--"I don't usually bother with forums, I run the Uk's largest second hand clarinet dealership. I don't have the time or energy to put digit to keyboard, but this is different." --
Then perhaps you will also post in the ABRSM forum in the UK.
In all my years of dealing with clarinets and the ABRSM, both in the UK, France and Italy, I have never heard of "the Uk's largest second hand clarinet dealership".
I know most of the reputable dealers in the UK. They are all very professional and always have time to put.."digit to keyboard".
I have no idea who or what you are.
An Ebay shop?
May I respectfully suggest that you do your spamming somewhere else?
Steve
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Author: BobD
Date: 2010-02-24 19:55
But "Alex, your posting on Double Lip about Jack Brymer was so cordial.
Keep the good news coming.....
Bob Draznik
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-02-24 21:19
I have an A and it is okay in some ways, but the keywork is quite poor. Many screw holes are drilled too large. I had to fill and redrill a few holes for pivot screws.
The intonation is NOT perfect, despite that what Tom says can make you think that. It is a little better than my Buffet in A, but it still has problems.
The tone and response are quite good.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-02-24 21:36
skygardener wrote:
> I have an A and it is okay in some ways, but the keywork is
> quite poor. Many screw holes are drilled too large. I had to
> fill and redrill a few holes for pivot screws.
Do you have a Lyrique (what he currently sells) or his older model (the TR147, I think it's called)? The reason why I ask is that I have heard really bad things about the keywork on the older model, but I didn't know if people had the same sorts of problems with the newer ones.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-02-24 21:42
CornoDiBasetto wrote:
Quote:
A valued customer just sent me 2 Ridenour products to sell for him
If he reads this board, he might start wishing he hadn't.... ![[whoa]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie10.gif)
(The rest of us appreciate your honesty, though.)
Post Edited (2010-02-24 21:42)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-02-24 22:37
Mine is a Lyrque. I got it about 2 years ago.
The quality of metal seems to be good but the finishing is sloppy.
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Author: clarinetcase
Date: 2010-02-25 03:00
I have an A and B flat Lyrique which I purchased a little over a year ago for playing in places where the heat was turned way down in the winter and for outdoor concerts. I have found both to perform well. The worst thing that I've had to deal with was a minor cork replacemen on the B flat. I've had a lot of compliments on my sound, etc. when I've played using the Lyriques. Can't say I'm fond of nickel keys, but I actually like playing them much better than I thought I would. If I'd had the problems skygardener had, I'd have contacted Tom and/or returned them.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-02-25 03:17
I've been playing the R-13 for about 40 or more years. Just for the heck of it I ordered a Bb clarinet from Tom. (Ridinour) The reason I did this was my highly regarded opinion of Tom through the many years. The clarinet should be in sometime soon, so I'll post the testing results after playing or a few days.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-02-25 03:25
To be fair, there is no better A clarinet that I know of for that price, and any A clarinet that is better than his would be about double the price. It should also be noted that many of the people that buy his clarinets are doing so because they do not want to or can not pay for the higher price of other brands.
As far as what Tom says about the potentials of hard rubber vs. wood, I have no argument. There is indeed no difference in the potentials, and the clarinet does play rather easily when one can get the keys working right, but that is not an easy task.
I had had them for several months and I was just changing the pads. I noticed the screw hole problem at that point.
Also, I found that the F#/C# key was suspended between the screws with more than .5mm between the key and the post.
I actually had several more complaints initially and I sent the instrument back to Tom. His initial answer to my complaints about the keywork were, "Well why don't you get someone over there to take care of it? That would save you the money of shipping it back."
The truth is that things like excessively wobbly keys and rough edges in the bore should not be a part of any new clarinet, and I found the way he brushed off my request to be the same as though he were saying, "There is no problem with these clarinets. I don't want to be bothered." Having to send it there and back (which I had to pay for) plus the import tax that I had to pay twice made the price of the clarinet about $300+ more. I gave him the benefit of the doubt that his clarinets were as good as he said, but I found them to be average.
Further than the sloppy finishing, I found that the RH Eb/Bb trill key has a silly design that is prone to hit the bridge key. This is not apparent initially because the pad height upon purchase is very low (and stuffy) for that key. Once you take down the cork so that the key opens more, you find that the key is hitting the bridge key. It took some time to bend the key around so that it doesn't touch. Not happy about that.
ps. To be even more fair, I have found many clarinets from the big 4 that have problems with key work, intonation, etc. Buffet or Selmer are not free from problems like this either. The problem as I see it, is that Tom points many of these things out on his website and says that they have been alleviated in his instruments.
Post Edited (2010-02-25 07:12)
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Author: Bobby McClellan
Date: 2010-02-25 03:26
I own Tom's Basset A and his BBb contra and have had no problems with them. Granted I donot get much timeon the Basset, it has good sound and have gotten good compliments. I did let a friend play it, it was uncomfortable for him, key layout and such.
The BBb i have plays great, intonation is good. Yes it is not a wooden professional and I did not expect it to compare apples to apples with one. But for the 2500.00 I have invested in it I could not do better and would buy it again if I had to.
Bobby M. McClellan
Flowood, MS
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2010-02-25 15:02
While reading this thread I get the feeling that anyone that doesn't like Tom's clarinets must be some sort of subversive or maybe worse, an extremist that needs to be investigated. Just because someone disagrees with your opinion doesn't mean they are wrong, nor does it mean they're right. Reviewing opinions submitted to this board are rather enjoyable to read especially when offered with some background or justification as to why you feel good/bad or indifferent.
I started playing the clarinet at age 10 in 1964, repair education started in 1967 and I got the chance to learn from some VERY generous and talented repairmen along the way. I lost count of the number of clarinets I have repaired but I have seen them all, American student, European, Chinese, professional, and with some years behind me I have certainly developed some opinions along the way regarding quality, what works well and what doesn't.
In the past few years I have had several of Tom's clarinets on my bench; they were owned by two different, very fine performers. They bought the clarinets after reading his website declaring how wonderful they were and that they would tolerate the drastic changes in humidity/weather we have here in PA. They both came to me for the same reason, bent keys. The keys didn't seem to be forged, they appeared to be some sort of pewter that was about the same hardness as refrigerated margarine. It took no effort at all to bend the keys back to where they worked but any small force (like putting the clarinet together) would bend them out of place quite easily.
When I finished getting the keys all lined up and where they belong I played both clarinets and they were pretty much the same; dull, boring and uninteresting. If I compared the tone to my stereo, it was as though I turned off the treble, turned the midrange way down and the bass up. Some players like a "dark" sound from their clarinet but this was dull and as uninteresting as an organ stop with no high partials. The intonation was fairly good though, I will admit that.
Both of the pros that bought the clarinets sold them on EBAY soon after they got them, mostly because of the dull tone and the key problems. They both picked up student Buffets to play where the weather might be very bad for their regular symphony set up (one plays a Selmer the other a Buffet).
Please feel free to investigate my background as I might be some subversive from Latvia trying to destroy the American dream simply because I have an opinion that comes from real life experience and I know two people that sold their Ridenour Lyrique clarinets on EBAY.
Scott Brodt
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-02-25 15:31
I've played clarinet since '63, and I've been a repair tech since the mid 70's. I've worked on scores of Ridenour 147s and a hand full of Lyriques. While I agree with a lot of scott Brodt had to say about these instruments, I have to tell you that the keys are not pewter. They can be silver-soldered when broken, and pewter will melt long before enough heat is applied to solder the key.
These clarinets are made in China, and while they may be some of the best from that country they are not, in my opinion, top line instruments. If one likes the way they play, and they can deal with the short comings of the instrument I think they should play them and disregard what others have to say.
Has anyone researched what clarinets are played by professionals in China?
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-02-25 17:16
Scott, I think the reaction was more to the original post than it was to whether folks like or dislike the Ridenour clarinets.
If you don't like the way they play or the way they are made, it's fine by me that you don't use them, and even that you might make a comment about why you feel that way. You base that on your personal experience.
Let's look at it from a different perspective, though.
Let's imagine that a new user (toyally hypothetical, of course!) comes to the Clarinet BB, and posts the following:
" I have never posted here before, as I own and operate a site that is so great that I can't be bothered with mundane bulletin boards, where so few of you actually have a clue as to what is going on, and you would not be able to appreciate my greatness in any case.
Nevetheless, without ever giving you any clue whatsoever of my qualifications, I will unequivocably state that (insert brand here) clarinets are decidedly inferior to what I feel is a wonderful brand (and therefore what everyone should buy from me), and therefore not even worthy of my contempt."
Do you think such a post might get a few replies to the contrary, and maybe a challenge or two?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-02-25 17:29
JJAlbrecht wrote:
> Do you think such a post might get a few replies to the
> contrary, and maybe a challenge or two?
One could simply ignore such posts...
--
Ben
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-02-25 17:34
The thread starter seems to be interested in doing one thing. That is bashing Ridenour clarinets. I guess since the post wasn't moderated it is ok do to that. Tom is free to defend his product here if he sees fit.
Post Edited (2010-02-25 17:35)
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2010-02-25 21:41
I took the time to reread the first post in this thread, my first impression and my second were the same. I felt that someone that works 12 to 14 hours a day like I do (but only 6 days a week mostly) doesn't really have a great deal of time to write in, even if he wanted to do so.
It just seemed to me that Alex felt as though he was mislead by a website and wanted to share what he felt was incorrect. I never got the impression that Alex was out to bash Tom's clarinets for one reason, to sell his own instruments.
I also never got that feeling that Alex was some elitist looking down on the pathetic, untalented members of this board so that he could educate us all with his superior knowledge. Sorry, I got the impression that he felt the clarinets he had in his hand were not the top quality that Tom makes them out to be on his site, that's it.
As for qualifications, I have no idea who most of the folks are on this board with the exceptions of those with names of national recognition like Greg Smith, David Blumberg, Ed Palanker, Francois Kloc; all of these men have rather noted careers so I do know who they are. Everyone deserves the same respect on this or any other board unless the tone dips to a level of insults and mud slinging, that writer would certainly fall to a respect level of zero in my book.
Scott Brodt
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2010-02-25 22:56
Damn, now I'm feeling uneasy about getting a Lyrique from Tom Ridenour. I was all hyped up to get a Bb for a stand- by instrument and have been saving up my dollars for one. Now I'm having second thoughts. I live in Australia. I've been informed that the air freight will cost $US 100. That's a lot of dough to pay out for an instrument that I may be unhappy about when I get it. I'm a long way away from Tom. Oh , and there is also the import duty that I would have to pay , something like 38% on anything costing more than $Aus1000. (cost of the Lyrique is $Aus1112) I wish there was a dealer here in Australia but Tom only sells direct. There is another Bb Clarinet that I have been reading about and there is an Australian dealer for it . It's the W.Schreiber Intermediate Model 6025 going for $Aus 1887 but I can't see any reviews about this instrument. Has anyone had any hands- on experience with this Clarinet ?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2010-02-25 22:58
You might like the Lyrique!!
I'm super picky about everything from sound to key finish.
However there are other very good players who are also picky and love them.
Ya got to try for yourself, and I haven't tried the Lyrique.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2010-02-25 23:04
Unfortunately for you it's going to be a crapshoot - and there's nothing anyone can really do to help.
Even the expensive clarinets have their detractors. There's not much you can do except either bite the bullet and get the clarinet, or not...
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-02-25 23:28
Going to his website I don't see anything about satisfaction being guaranteed. Doesn't Ridenour give a money back guarantee if the buyer doesn't like the clarinet when it is delivered?
Post Edited (2010-02-25 23:39)
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-02-25 23:55
Tom offers a 5 day trial. You pay shipping if you don't like it.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2010-02-26 00:01)
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Author: kenb
Date: 2010-02-26 00:00
Barry, if you're willing to shell out nearly $1900 for the Schreiber (which may be a very good instrument) you're also in the ballpark price-wise for a good secondhand pro-level clarinet .
Ken (Sydney)
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Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2010-02-26 00:37
Kenb, thanks for pointing that out to me , have you any more information as to where I could look at a second hand pro instrument here in Australia ?
GLHopkins , good point GL
Bob , yes he offers a 5 day trial but if I was dissatisfied that,s a total of $US 200 I would have to pay out. Hmmm the problem of distance :(
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2010-02-26 00:38)
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Author: justme
Date: 2010-02-26 01:32
Here's my humble opinion...
I've spent many,many hours over time reading various forums in an attempt to garner an average opinion on the lyrique Pro Clarinet.
What I have learned from all of this from the pros that actually use the Lyrique Bb Custom RCP-576bc Model is:
As far as intonation, playing across the break, ease of playing in the altissimo, evenness of scale and overall playability, this instrument is tops.
Of course being rubber, it is pretty consistent and you don't worry about it cracking, dampits, etc. ( I read of one person who was trying out many of the lyriques when looking to purchase and couldn't find any differences to decide which one was "best," as he was used to buying wooden clarinets).
Famed clarinetist Professor Sherman Friedland really loves the Lryique and recommends it ( as do many other pros).
The only thing negative that seems to keep coming up is that the key work could be improved and this only comes from some.
The other thing which seems to happen is that when mentioning the lyrique, some people are referring to the older models which aren't as good as the new ones.
I've read of people getting rid of their "high end" clarinets such as the Tosca, etc. In favor of the lyrique pro model, so Tom must be doing something right!
As with any clarinet, some may or may not prefer the tone of the lyrique. Welsh National Opera Principal Clarinetist Leslie Craven for example uses the lyrique pro models with a bakun bell because he believes that the clarinet could use extra sonority and life to the lower register, others like them just the way they are.
Justme
http://woodwindforum.ning.com/
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Author: cearnsh
Date: 2010-02-26 11:39
It's intriguing to compare the first post with the glowing terms in which the Ridenour bass is described in his online shop.
Here -
> The Bass clarinet is inferior to the student models of any other reputable manusfacturer
Shop -
>This Bass is way above the standard Resin bodied student models from Selmer Bundy, Leblanc Vito, & Yamaha
You may draw any conclusions you like...
Edit - I should have explicitly said 'with regard to CornodiBasetto and his opinions'. I have no experience of the clarinets in question and was not intending to imply anything about them.
Chris
Post Edited (2010-02-26 21:02)
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2010-02-26 12:31
Chris Earnshaw's post is enlightening, and so is the laudatory tone of the FULL posting on Alex Allen's Web site:
"This is an extremely rare Bass clarinet, at the cutting edge of contemporary manufacture. Tom Ridenour, the great American designer, has hit upon the ingenious idea, of manufacturing professional models in ebonite, well not exactly new, but it hasn't been fashionable for over 80 years! Thus we have a professional model Bass to low Eb with double over blowing mechanism just like the top models from Buffet and Selmer, very competitively priced. This example is near MINT, with only a couple of tape repairs to cork [bottom tenon & correspondence] to distinguish it from new. All keywork, nickel plate, is pristine. All white leather reflector pads are as new. The mouthpiece is a top of the range professional Lomax Classic B2, in pristine condition. This Bass is way above the standard Resin bodied student models from Selmer Bundy, Leblanc Vito, & Yamaha, yet it is priced for less! The current list price for this instrument with student m'piece is $1900 = £1240 + UK VAT and import duty. The current list price for a Lomax Bass m'piece is £168 "
.
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Author: dibble
Date: 2010-02-26 13:02
I have a Ridenour Low c bass and it is collecting dust. I have had it for 2 years. I have no other bass and I cannot afford another. Bass clarinet is my main instrument but only play Bb (selmer 10s) now because of my situation.
Problems with the bass... The pads on the upper joint are constantly moving around and do not seat properly. I have taken this horn to local repair shops around Manhattan at least 10 times (I had no choice; I needed it for gigs) for re-seating and have been told by most of these reputable repairman that it is due to soft metal and cheap glue behind the pads. I would then pay good $ and then the pads again would leak a few weeks later. Finally, I quit. And now I play only Bb. It was a money pit. I have also had a few embarrassing moments on the instrument playing live due to leakage. Squeak!
I wrote to Tom when I had my first problem and he basically wrote back telling me that I am heavy handed. Meaning the problem is due to my bad technique; that it was my problem and that other people haven't the same problems I have had. This is ridiculous. I know how to play bass quite well and I just spent 3grand on this! Now that these horns have been out for a while, I know that I am not alone. These postings are a testament.
ps. I played a selmer 33 bass low c for many years and these are built like tanks and sound full and gorgeous. It was not mine and belonged to the university. Had to give it back.. Hard rubber basses have a tone that is missing highs and mids just like another wrote earlier. It is a boring sound!
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Author: justme
Date: 2010-02-26 15:11
Just to clarify, my post was referring to the Lyrique 576BC Bb Pro Clarinet, a SOPRANO Clarinet.
The Bass Clarinet is a whole "different animal" and I don't know how his Bass Clarinets compare to some of the others such as the Kessler, Yamaha, etc.
Take Care
Justme
http://woodwindforum.ning.com/
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-02-26 18:05
Weberfan, it's funny how the tune changes when one is trying to unload something he thinks is a piece of crap on his unsuspecting customers. That should be an indication that the seller is dishonest and should be avoided.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-02-26 18:38
ATTENTION MODERATORS:
I realize the rules about posting e-mails may be set against what I am about to post. Please feel free to verify with Tom Ridenour that he asked me to post the following message. I am sure you are able to look up his contact information directly from his web site.
Thanks,
Jeff
Jeff,
If you would be kind enough please post this response or at least let people know of it:
I have been open in saying repeatedly, ad nauseum, that after Brook Mays went bankrupt in 2006 many clarinets bearing my name that the corporation had in stock were sold for pennies on the $$ to all sorts of stores, mostly pawn shops. Many of these clarinets were instruments I had tried to recall from the earliest years of the model, and they had numerous mechanical problems. But I was not successful in my efforts before I left Brook Mays in Dec. 2005.
Those problems were subsequently solved over several years. The Lyrique model I have been producing since 2007 seldom if ever receives any complaints from customers, and many have said they like it because the action is smooth and quiet. In addition, many players are playing them in top symphonies here and abroad, and in many recording studios and demanding performance venues, with no complaints about mechanics or acoustics. I have posted some of their comments on my web site, and they were sent voluntarily. We do not pay or offer anything in exchange for comments or endorsements.
We serve customers one on one, and besides my own experience which is arguably considerable, all I have to go on are the responses of those whom I serve and their after point of purchase choices. Those are, repeatedly, to send others to me, which is the only way we garner business, having no advertising budget.
In regard to tuning and the clarinet: No clarinet plays perfectly in tune, but some clarinets can be played virtually perfectly in tune with much less effort and adjustment than others. Others are, of course, impossible to play well in tune, and some of those are high priced.
I have never claimed to have a clarinet that plays perfectly in tune, but to have a clarinet is plays extraordinarily, amazingly well in tune.
In defense of that, after my son told me about the comments posted, I pick up a random clarinet I have just been preparing, warmed it up a bit, set the tuner to 440Hz, and recorded myself playing a C scale, from high C to low E, with only one recording take. Next, I did another take testing from high C to high G. That recording presented has the second take because I missed a fingering in the first.
I am a double-lip player, the routine work I did on this clarinet is SOP here and nothing extraordinary, I'm well out of shape and unfamiliar with this clarinet, having never played it before throughout the registers before the recording, and achieved the tuning results with no embouchure adjustment and only minimal adjustments in voicing (tongue position),
Anyone can see it if they put the following in the url of their search engine:
http://ridenourclarinetproducts.com/2010tuningtest.html
They'll also need quicktime 7 to view; available free from the apple web site.
best regards,
tom
(Jeff's note: edited for a personal typo, as well as to activate Tom's link)
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2010-02-26 18:50)
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Author: dibble
Date: 2010-02-27 01:25
I guess a trash talking New Yorker and trash talking repairman from PA should also be added to this list (Like the "Brit"). I guess if you have a problem with these horns, it is all YOUR fault and you are a trash talker and are the minority. Maybe all the the repairman that I visited such as Daniel Deitch of San Francisco and the folks at Roberto's winds in NYC are trash talkers too because they also have reservations about the keywork, sound and craftsmanship of the Lyrique.
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Author: dibble
Date: 2010-02-27 01:33
Sorry I replied to the wrong post... I'll say again.
I guess you should add a trash talking New Yorker and a trash talking repairman from PA to this list ("trash talking Brit"). Other people, such as Daniel Deitch of San Francisco, and the folks at Roberto's Winds in NYC should also be added to this "trash" talking list because they too have reservations about the sound, keywork and construction of the Lyrique.
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Author: Clari
Date: 2010-02-27 06:12
I have a very similar customer service experience like the one skygardener mentioned. I also have a lyrique A. Basically, he tells me to get the list of things fixed locally when I have some key work issues. The bridgekey was seriously mis-aligned when I have it. What you get is what you pay. You can send him praises and he will take all of them and post it on this web site and this seems the only channel to reflect my actual experience. Maybe I am not a professional and he doesn't care much.
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Author: dibble
Date: 2010-02-27 15:32
I also forgot to add that Walter Grabner and I had a conversation about how rubber clarinets don't sound as full. He also dovetails a posting about a used leblanc bass made of wood he has for sale with "why settle for an instrument made from resonate or hard rubber?." Interesting.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2010-02-27 16:19
dibble wrote:
> I also forgot to add that Walter Grabner and I had a
> conversation about how rubber clarinets don't sound as full.
> He also dovetails a posting about a used leblanc bass made of
> wood he has for sale with "why settle for an instrument made
> from resonate or hard rubber?." Interesting
I don't find that worthy of note. What exactly would you have him say when he's not selling a hard rubber clarinet.
Just look at the OP who blasts the Ridenour here but describes it glowingly on his website and on eBay. Puffery & maybe worse for him. I think his eBay ad and website sales pitches should have a linkback to that 1st post ... just to keep things on the "up-and-up" ...
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-02-27 16:43
TO be honest, I would recommend that you have keywork repairs done locally,. too, if only for the reason that it will probably cost you more to ship the instrument back to Dallas for the work than it would for the actual repair. Warranty matters are different and should be handled my the maker or by someone approved and reimbursed by the maker. That would make sense to me.
I would noit describe the issue I have with Tom's keywork as a problem with finishing or quality, but rather that he has a slightly different concept of how the keys should feel than I do. So, my Lyrique is not the *most* perfect fit I could desire in a clarinet, but it does perform for me in ways that matter more, such as sound production and intonation. One of the other members in my band, a lifelong R13 player, doesn't like the clarinet when she plays it, but she can't argue with the results I get when I play it.
I would hazard to say that not every clarinet design is going to be optimal for each and every player. That's fine. Play what works best for you. For me, my Lyrique is a very nice fit, and cost me way less than comparable wooden instruments would have cost me. Others' mileage may vary, but you won't know unless you give t a fair trial.
MAybe I would like a Tosca, Privilege or Legacy better, but I don't have that kind of money lying around. I have a daughter to put through college at present, and this is just a fun diversion for me, as well as something that offers me a "mental health" activity. I play clarinet just for the fun and love of it. That's the literal definition of "amateur" and I wear that badge with pride.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2010-02-27 22:11)
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2010-02-27 19:50
There was a time when these discussions were interesting.
Having seen for myself how a carrot can sound with a MP, having experienced rubbish clarinets - wood and rubber, excellent clarinets - wood and rubber, I just don't listen any more.
Nothing to do with his clarinets, but as far as I know, Tom Ridenour is the only person who has done a double blind test with rubber vs wooden instruments.
This is 2010. How about marking this year with a properly controlled experiment to see if there really is a difference?
Nope? Thought so!
What was the humidity when the tests were done? Was it seasoned hard rubber or new? What was the sulphur content? What was the player's blindfold made of? He had a better tone with the white blindfold!... etc
Steve
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Author: GLHopkins
Date: 2010-02-27 21:36
I've listened to some mp3s that Ridenour has done and has on his website. It sounds if he is sitting in a small room with carpet on the floor, and he probably is. They don't sound bad at all. I've played a few here in my repair shop with a concrete floor. They seem to respond and project pretty well. The scale sounds even enough, and the throat tones are nice. I haven't played them a tuner.
My only issue with these is the keywork. I think the keys on a Vito are vastly superior to any chinese made clarinet, and until the keys on these clarinets made in China are as durable as student level, American made clarinets, there will be problems AND discussions like we have here. How hard can it be to make decent keys?
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-02-27 22:18
I wondered how he thought he was going to keep his "valued customer" happy having just sabotaged his own sale here on the board.
Perhaps his post here was his way of dealing with a guilty conscience over having put such a deceptively laudatory advertisement on his website at the behest of his client.
Even if so, though, it was the wrong way to deal with this ethical dilemma. He'd have done much better to simply stick to the facts on his own website or simply to refuse to sell something of such low quality.
It's far better to lose a client, even an important one, than it is to lose your reputation (or, for that matter, your self-respect).
Further, this sort of after-the-fact sabotage of the sale is a far worse thing to do to a client, even if done out of "principle." If I were this guy's client and I realized what he had done here on the BBoard, I'd take back my instruments and either try to sell them myself or through someone else. A really disgruntled client could even decide to take legal action.
Perhaps the OP will learn a valuable lesson in customer relationships and business ethics from this experience. I hope for his sake that he doesn't have to learn it the hard way, though.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2010-02-27 22:46
>My only issue with these is the keywork.
i guess i'm 'heavy handed' also.
my concerns with this line of instruments were posted here years ago, and have not changed.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
Post Edited (2010-02-27 22:47)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2010-02-28 02:14
I want to post again so that my words are not misinterpreted.
I personally support Tom's goals about making a good instrument out of a material that lasts long and is durable.
I also want to make clear that I have found key finishing on many of the major makers' instruments that are shameful. Just last month I had a new student. I looked at her Yamaha 450 and was shocked by the amount of play in some of the keys. The holes were clearly drilled too large.
Also, when I did adjust the key touches to my liking (which I do for every clarinet I play) I found the keys to be made of very good hard metal and I don't expect that they will fall out of adjustment for any time soon.
My only problem was that there were a few screw holes drilled too big and there was some roughness in the bore. Perhaps I got the one in a million that came out that way. I have seen the same things on all of the major brands. These defects were not unique to Tom's clarinets.
Finally, I think that his instruments are generally good players and hold their own with all other brands.
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Author: rossbu
Date: 2010-02-28 13:02
I've got to contribute my 2 cents worth:
I own a Lyrique (about 2 years now). I also own a fine R13. I have owned a series 9, 9*, many other R13's, etc. My professional career, as a player started in 1965, so I've had plenty of experience. Here are my observations:
1. The Lyrique, nor any other horn is perfect - or even close to!
2. Tom is a brilliant person, fine designer and for me, has been responsive, effective, and involved firend whenever I've had a problem, question, etc. with the Lyrique or for that matter, any other clarinet question.
3. The Lyrique mechanism is more different from your typical pro horn rather than inferior. I'm not a mechanic, so I can't speak to the quality, except that I've never had a problem with it. Personally, I wish it felt like an R13, but having said that, I am very comfortable on it because I GAVE IT AN ADEQUATE AMOUNT OF TIME TO GET USED TO IT!
4. The lyrique as stated many times above, has a beautiful round sound and fine intonation. I double and playing musicals as well as teach middle school band, and it is really a great thing to pick up the Lyrique cold and be pretty much intune with a decent sound. I can't honestly say the same thing for any wood clarinet that I've owned or used.
5. I've found that the music community is pretty - if this is the correct term, provincial in it's view. I know the main tech in my area disses anything that isn't a Buffet clarinet, Selmer VI, or Haynes flute- I find his view to be ignorant and narrow.
5. Tom's main fault is what makes him a valuable member of the music community, he is the company, therefore, he is stretched thin - when he has been nonresponsive to me, I call up and remind him - no big deal, I just remind him.
I really feel like some of this is critical beyond fairness!
Burt
bross141@comcast.net
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Author: john connor
Date: 2010-02-28 21:02
Well, I've owned a Ridenour bass and posted about it here before. And a Lyrique. The original post in this thread is basically saying they sound just like all the other cheap student instruments, I think. He's doesn't talk about keywork or response or price or anything like that - just the sound. I would have to agree with him on that score (in fact, his ebay ad says the thing IS superior in terms of mechanics - at least, that's what I assume he means). His problem is what it sounds like. And surely there can't be many people out there who would claim that ANY of the non-wood material bass clarinets (or sopranos) presently on the market (incl greenline) really sound like grenadilla? It may be that if they were made in plastic/hard rubber and had exactly the same dimensions as a wood model then they would sound more similar, but not 'THE SAME'. Has anyone ever played the recorder? Recorders are interesting because you can actually buy cheap and very high quality plastic recorders that are replicas (in bore, toneholes etc) of wood models. Yet the sound difference is very obvious, between materials. I really like metal clarinets too (I have a soft spot for 30's Silva-bets and Selmers) but they sound significantly different to wood, and these were top-of-the-line models. Surely it's counter intuitive to claim that the material has NO effect on the tone? Forget all the tosh about where it's made or sourced, whether it's 'natural' or not (Ridenour is as guilty as the rest here with his silly articles on 'natural' hard rubber, which hasn't been seen since they tapped rubber out of trees before world war 2 - and anyway, plastic is 'natural' enough, it comes out of the ground, ultimately (isn't oil 'natural'?), just like everything else...). The sound is different depending on the material, and some people like it, and others don't. No need to get so up tight about that, surely?
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2010-02-28 21:45
I would expect someone with a vested interest in selling high-end instruments to pooh-pooh the Lyrique. Then again, there is at least one stellar dealer who has referred customers to Mr. Ridenour,
I played an event a month ago with another musician who has a new Lyrique C. We played each other's instruments, commented, then traded back. Wish I could have played more on the Lyrique, but my take was that this was a very good instrument. Yes, I prefer my Stephen Fox C, but if I ever need a spare, that would be my choice.
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