 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2010-02-24 15:30
I've had my R-13 since 2002 and when I picked it out it was an exception clarinet above all the other clarinets I tried at International Musical Suppliers (which had one of the best selections around). In the last year things have changed in terms of the intonation quality. Certain notes have gone out of tune beyond a reasonable level. Throat F and Eb are very flat and require the sliver key to bring up at any dynamic louder than mp. High D is flat with the pinky key on and the D an octave below that is very sharp. Low F is flatter and the corresponding 12th is sharper. The Brannens do the maintenance on my clarinets, I know they are well taken care of by them.
I'm a capable player and I can bend these notes the 20 cents they often need however this has diminished my joy of playing and since I am no longer a aspiring professional, my joy in in playing is what I care about the most. In case it helps.
My set up for both my A and Bb are Brannenized R-13's, Muncy Synthetic Barrels, Vandoren M3013 Mouthpiece and Vandoren V12 Reeds.
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Author: salzo
Date: 2010-02-24 15:44
I have an R13 from 2002 that I have been playing for 6 months, and mine has issues similar to those you mention. I plan on having it adjusted in a few months.
On mine, the F you mentioned is also flat, as is the E, and the throat tones. I recently started using a 65mm moennig, and that has helped greatly, and has not caused the rest of the instrument to be too sharp. I prefer the 66mm, and I think that I can have those flat notes adjusted to allow the 66mm to work for the entire instrument the throat notes should be an easy remedy, and the E and F should be OK to raise, because the 12th above is slightly low.
I do not experience a flat high D, but the D below was quite sharp, and the E above a little sharp-really more bright than sharp. This is something I always experience, and I think it is more me than the instrument. I remedy this by placing electric tape on the top of the tone holes on the 3rd finger hole, and under the f/c cup. The low G is just a tad low, but I find that is easy to sharpen, and the low A is right in tune, with the 12th above now being just a tad high, but easy to remedy with embouchure adjustment..
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-02-24 15:46
The twelfths are screwed up somehow, either a mouthpiece or barrel switch must have percipitated this change............. yes?
If not, I don't have much of an idea why all of a sudden the internal pitch would suffer a wild swing without some massive change to bore somewhere.
Of course my suggestion (without input ......yet) would be to try a standard 66mm barrel and a NON 13 Series mouthpiece...........or even better, try the stock mouthpiece (for intonation purposes ONLY, don't get all crazy with the "feel" of the thing). The idea is to see if you have wild intonation issues are of the same size (flat low "F" to sharp "C") and direction (are the throat notes still flat?).
Just try it; with a tuner; 15 minutes; that's all I ask.
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-02-24 19:12
Dear Paul Miller,
If the bore was not matched to spec, why did it work in the first place?
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-02-24 20:43
James--
Did you switch mouthpieces and/or barrels within the last year?
If so, that would be the first thing I'd look at. The odds of your R-13 suddenly having tuning problems like you describe seem awfully low to me. My R-13 Bb is 20 years old and still plays as in-tune as when I bought it. My orchestral partner in crime, pewd, has been playing on his since the 1970s, and his intonation is superb. We still use our original barrels, even.
So my advice, before you start dismantling your clarinet or shopping for a new one, is to go back to the stock barrel and put on a different model of mouthpiece and see if that doesn't alleviate your problem at least somewhat. If so, then I think you will have found the culprit.
For one thing, the M30-13 mouthpiece has a reputation for being difficult to keep up to pitch. The M30 facing length contributes to this, as well as the fact that it is a Series 13 model (which means it's pitched lower than the standard A=442 mouthpieces Vandoren sells).
By the way the notes you describe as sharp and flat are, in fact, naturally sharp and flat on the R-13, though not to an extreme degree. Perhaps the flexibility in pitch you get from using an M30 causes these natural tendencies to become exaggerated.
Post Edited (2010-02-24 21:03)
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Author: pewd
Date: 2010-02-24 22:59
different reed brand?
remove the register key.
clean the vent with a pipe cleaner , making sure not to scratch the bore
reinstall the key
check tuning again.
any torn pads?
mrn's clarinet isn't even old enough to be broken in yet.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: mrn
Date: 2010-02-25 01:23
pewd wrote:
> mrn's clarinet isn't even old enough to be broken in yet.
Yeah, that's why I haven't gotten my keys replated--so nobody can tell. Looks more legit that way. 
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-02-25 02:44
It sounds like the bore has changed. That could happen in a month or a few years, depending on many factors. I would suggest you try several different barrels from several manufactures, each has their own bore design to see if any of them makes a difference. If that doesn't make it better you will need to go to someone that has expertise in tuning and bore work and sit with them working on each problem until they get it as good as they can. You may need some work on the bore or undercutting or holes filled in. What you need most of all, in that case, is an expert. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2010-02-25 04:02
Well the R-13's have always had minor tuning issues with the key holes you wrote about, regardless of the year the various horns were
made; in most cases of course. As we all know wood changes, the hardness, the amount of grain, the actual section of the tree that was used to make the clarinet, the age of the wood, and all sorts of other conditions.
I just found this clarinet website and this is only my second post! My background for the past 40 years or so, include designing mouthpieces and reeds.
I've reworked thousands of mouthpieces including just about every type of the Vandoren mouthpieces. One of the first things I do to Vandoren's is work on the taper of the bore. This includes different assortments of tapered drills know as reamers, to solve the flat notes with the R-13's.
Before adjusting the tone holes on your clarinet have the mouthpiece checked out by someone with bore experience. I would also try different barrels and even a different mouthpiece, same model. Depending on the type of material used to make mouthpieces there can be up to a 20% shink rate.
Hope this helps.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
Post Edited (2010-02-26 02:25)
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Author: tarynone
Date: 2010-03-01 00:10
Hey James!!!
(clarinet board people: don't yell at me if this is repeated info...)
It really sounds like your mouthpiece is warped/too old. The mouthpiece is always the first thing to check in my opinion.
And now the testimony... I was going CRAZY a few years ago when my E (first line on staff) and F got flat, among other things. Reeds also didn't seem to be as good anymore, but I couldn't understand why I was the only person complaining. It was the mouthpiece and, when I tried another mouthpiece in my same model, it seriously was like the heavens opened up. Over time, all mouthpieces (Vandorens especially) can get warped, meaning the table isn't as flat as it used to be. Some people on Vandorens say you need a new one every 2-3 years.
If you have a fancy mouthpiece (or less replaceable than a Vandoren) maybe you should look into having a mouthpiece guy re-flatten the table. I think it can be done 1 or 2 times for a mpce.
So I'll bet you a cookie that it's the mouthpiece. otherwise, maybe just blame it on this Chicago weather
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