 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: classic10
Date: 2010-02-23 03:36
Hi,
I've been searching the board for more than one hour and I can't find a final answer regarding this. I think a lot of people have the same questions. When buying an used (old clarinet). What are the standard sizes for HP and LP. On the most common clarinets soprano clarinets Bb and A, and Eb sopranino?
Thank you very much!
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Author: RoBass
Date: 2010-02-24 07:16
appr. 66cm for Bb, appr. 60cm for A (overall measurement from tip of MPC to other end)
kindly
Roman
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Author: classic10
Date: 2010-02-24 11:57
But, for example. what is the size for Bb low pitch and high pitch, Eb Low pitch and high pitch, A low pitch and high pitch?
As var as i know.
Bb LP: 26" (~66cm) HP: ?
Eb LP: 18" (~46cm) HP: 17" (~43cm)
A LP: ? HP: ?
Are these numbers correct? What about A, instruments?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-02-24 14:12
Don't think you can measure the length and you could tell low pitch from high pitch.
HP instruments are from a period where much less was "standardised", so if one instrument had an exceedingly long (by today's standards) bell it might be just as long as an LP instrument, yet still play at A=457 or whatnot.
Plus, I am not sure German and French system instruments are of equal length, so there's another uncertainty.
You only know for sure if you grab a tuner. A better indicator might be the serial number which points to the year of manufacturing which again might be before or after high pitch went out of fashion.
--
Ben
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Author: classic10
Date: 2010-02-24 17:29
@Tictactux: Then since there is no standard, the size of the clarinet will only give a vague notion of how it is tuned? I've seen many times here and on Ebay people asking to measure length. Would you say it is not a relevant information when buying old horns?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-02-24 17:35
classic,
I think it's meaningful to measure in order to determine whether it's a Bb or a C or an A instrument, but I don't think it'd be precise enough to find out whether it's a High Pitch or Low Pitch instrument (of the same family)
--
Ben
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-02-25 12:46
Ben wrote,
>>I think it's meaningful to measure in order to determine whether it's a Bb or a C or an A instrument, but I don't think it'd be precise enough to find out whether it's a High Pitch or Low Pitch instrument (of the same family)
>>
I agree. There are too many variables. Different manufacturers (and even the same manufacturers at different times) put the joints between sections, barrel and bell in slightly different places. The diameter of the bore affects basic pitch along with intonation. The length of the mouthpiece can make a surprisingly big difference, too. It's rarely possible to know for sure until you play the instrument whether the mouthpiece in the case with a used clarinet will work with it. It could be the original, a good replacement, a "meh" replacement, a disastrous replacement or just whatever the dealer decided to throw into the case to make the instrument look complete. A long, modern mouthpiece with an old, high-pitch clarinet can bring the overall pitch down enough (while messing up the relationship between notes) to make the instrument sound like a modern-pitched instrument that's no good.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2010-02-26 16:06
Lelia hs given you a good discussion of the many factors that determine the "pitch" of woodwind [etc] instruments, closed tube length of course being the dominate. of . I measured several Bb clarinets, an older A cl at generally 26 " and 28 " [+/-]. Multiply by 24.5 mm/in for the equivalent metric lengths. These are measured with the "relatively standard" 72 mm mouthpiece and 66 mm barrel fully closed. I believe that most cl books, particularly by Benade, discuss the acoustics for obtaining the desired lowest tone, low E or Eb for some cls etc. The "length-sensitivity" effect on pitch is explored every day in the tuning to the "fixted-pitch " insts. Others, please help, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2010-02-26 18:08
Yup, we are both right ! I just generally prefer mm's for cl measurements, and eating !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: classic10
Date: 2010-02-26 18:09
This discussion completely rewrote my thoughts about clarinet intonation.
Then using standard mouthpieces with old clarinets can certainly mess up with their intonation or relation between notes. So, even if we get an old Low Pitch clarinet it may not play in tune without the original mouthpiece that came with it.
This also makes me thing that tuning the clarinet using tuning barrels or simply by pulling the barrel a little can fix one note but mess everything else. How can anyone possibly play reasonably in tune with so many variables?
Also I imagine that not only the diameter of the bore along the entire horn but also the width and cut of each tone hole makes a huge difference on each note's intonation. What a mess!
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-02-27 13:36
>>So, even if we get an old Low Pitch clarinet it may not play in tune without the original mouthpiece that came with it.
>>
True, but some of the original mouthpieces are lousy ones, alas. Good, modern mouthpiece makers can make replicas of antiques that will allow old instruments to play in tune. The tough part is guessing whether an old instrument with a bad beak is worth the expense of replacing the mouthpiece.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: xarkon
Date: 2010-03-01 18:07
Just a couple notes on the above:
Roman says:
> appr. 66cm for Bb, appr. 60cm for A
One or the other of these figures must be incorrect, as the A will be longer than Bb.
Don Berger notes the conversion from English to metric units:
> Multiply by 24.5 mm/in for the equivalent metric lengths.
There is just a transposition here; it is 25.4 mm/in.
Dave
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2010-03-01 20:25
TKS, Dave, yer rite on both counts, I can blame my trans. on a "Senior Moment" Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2012-07-19 18:28
FWIW.....and I'm sure that many will disagree and/or add their perspectives....
I have found that most Bb soprano clarinets meassure around 26" from bottom of bell to tip of mouthpiece. This is give or take....
A soprano clarinet significantly more than that (i.e., over 27") is generally an A
C Clarinets are generally 20-22" from bell to mouthpiece tip, and eefers are something like 18.5" on the same measure.
I never assume that length provides insight into HP vs. LP, I always check for those clues on the horn itself. If I can't find an indication on a questionable era horn, I pass it on by......
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