 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BbPlayer
Date: 2004-03-15 18:15
I am the sax playing Brother of an adult (50 something) beginner clarinet player. I have promised my sister a new clarinet when her rental period is over. Please comment on the following makes/models or make seperate recommendations. I am looking to spend roughly $400-$600 and have reduced the search to the following:
YCL250 Yamaha Resin body, beginner model
Vito V40 Resin body, intermediate model (per manufacturer)
Lablanc Rapsodie, Wood intermediate model, silver plated keys
Jupiter 931n Wood, intermediate model
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Author: lyn
Date: 2004-03-15 18:16
I would suggest a Buffet E-11 instead of a plastic horn, or even the LeBlanc. If you check around, you can find them for under $600 new.
~L
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-03-15 18:38
I do like LeBlancs but the 2 V40 horns I have don't do anything for me compared to the lower priced models......I probably haven't found the right mouthpiece for them yet. You can pick up Yamaha model 20 horns on eBay by the score for much less than $400. Get Woodwind and Brasswind's current price on the Pete Fountain plastic horn. The E11s are nice horns but they're pricier than plastic horns you can get for less. For a beginner adult at that age I'd definitely go with a plastic horn.
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Author: rebel clarinetist
Date: 2004-03-15 18:56
I'd go with plastic as well,that way your sister doesn't have to put up with all the procedures that a wooden clarinet does------oiling,etc. As she progresses,then maybe consider a wooden horn. I've been playing since junior high on plastic horns,first a Bundy(which I still have,and use for "back-up" and on a Plastic Buffet R13) I'm looking for my first wooden Bb,probably a Buffet(with help from my teacher). Hope this advice helps.
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Author: hans
Date: 2004-03-15 19:23
Karl,
Buffet and Selmer didn't make the cut for your short list, which makes me wonder what your criteria are.
In your position, I would give my sister the budget constraint and let her go shopping with her teacher, since she might want to add some of her own money and buy a more expensive instrument.
It's always tricky to pick out an instrument for someone else; e.g., my wife bought me a clarinet once, 35 years ago, and I had to return it to the store (but it's the thought that counts...).
Regards,
Hans
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-03-15 20:54
Ridenour TR147 was good enough for me to crack open my wallet.
It is, however, made of hard rubber and may disappoint a newbie.
The Amati line of clarinets are well received and reasonably priced.
If you want an alternative to US distributors, Paul at <www.saxshop.nl> has good selection, excellent prices and will take Diner's club!
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2004-03-15 22:18
I would go with the plastic Yamaha for several reasons:
1. They're reasonably good horns.
2. A beginner will never be able to hear or appreciate the difference between a beginner and a pro horn.
3. An adult beginner (not a restarter), especially one in their 50's is more interested in the process of self discovery and more interested in growing at a comfortable pace than doing longtones, scales, arpeggios and etudes: all the things necessary to really excel. Hence, they will probably be satisfied with the same plastic horn for years.
4. The extra money you save can go towards a good mouthpiece (a MUCH more essential ingredient in qualith sound production).
4. Most importantly, should she decide that she wants to continue, then it will be her responisbility to buy herself a pro horn.
Good luck,
Ron Jr.
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Author: Bob Schwab
Date: 2004-03-16 02:53
If you're considering a Yamaha I'd add the YCL450 to your list of models for consideration. I paid just under $600, including tax, for a brand new YCL450 about a year an a half ago from a dealer in the Buffalo area. If you send me an e-mail I can get you their contact information. Everyone I let play it is very impressed. Hell, I'm impressed.
Bob Schwab
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2004-03-16 03:48
I wouldn't do a thing until I had a consult with David Spiegelthal who is one of "Sneezy's" sponsors. Dave rebuilds and reconditions some of the finest older horns that many of the new top model cannot touch for tone and quality. If you want fancy names, forget it. If you want an outstanding horn that will last your beginner friend forever and be a fine instrument then get in touch with him. His prices are well within your range. Ask anyone on the BB for references as to Dave's work and quality.
Bob A
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Author: kenabbott
Date: 2004-03-16 12:45
I agree with Bob A about older horns. I would never spend 400+ on a plastic horn when there are Selmer CT's and 9's that can be had for that price. Those are pro horns which were top-of-the-line.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2004-03-16 13:54
Bob A wrote:
> I wouldn't do a thing until I had a consult with David
> Spiegelthal who is one of "Sneezy's" sponsors.
David isn't a sponsor.
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2004-03-16 15:11
Sorry Mark, He's done so much stuff for me I thought he was.
Hear that Dave, Get with it. Sneezy needs more sponsors.
Bob A
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-16 15:16
Syn Botch,
I was wondering why you think someone would be dissapointed that clarinet is hard rubber?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2004-03-16 19:42
I second Alexi's question. My Conn/Malerne Bass is hard rubber and sounds great (At least I think it does).![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
Bob A
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2004-03-16 19:46
Wouldn't be the first time I was wrong...
Most beginners (and my adult bandmates) consider 'real' clarinets to be those made from wood. Their eyes light up when they play my 'cheapo'.
I'm just saying that there is a preconception to consider in the purchase.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-16 19:50
Ah. I see now. You're right. Many beginners and less knowledgable people about clarinet think WOOD = GOOD. OTHER = BAD. Thank goodness I came to this site and learned the truth!
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2004-03-16 20:45
It's regrettably true, I'm not a Sneezy sponsor, just a simple "donator" like so many others here....but then again, I'm not officially in the music biz, I just do what I do part-time, on the side, for satisfaction and gas money. Back to the issue....there is, as Bob A points out, nothing at all wrong with playing a good hard rubber or plastic clarinet --- I'd put my hard-rubber Kohlert bass and M. Lacroix Eb clarinets up against any wood instruments for sound and functionality (but not for looks, admittedly). I don't believe a beginner, even a mature adult beginner, would reap significant benefits from having a wood clarinet when there do exist some very good plastic and hard rubber instruments, such as the aforementioned Yamahas, Vitos, Ridenours, etc. And furthermore, an adult is more likely to see the logic in this argument and accept such an instrument to start out on, then perhaps a child might (children being intensely status- and peer-pressure-conscious as many are.....).
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2004-03-17 00:38
Well, for looks AND playability I would suggest a $250 Silva Bet (Condy Bettoney) off of eBay and then pay Dave to restore it. The only problem is that not all horns from eBay can be fixed.
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Author: BbPlayer
Date: 2004-03-17 14:36
In answer to HANS, Buffet did not make the list because of many posts here that indicate the lower level instuments have quite variable quality. Even R13's are know to vary per many posts here!
Others have stated Selmer has cut cost corners and reduced the quality of the lower level offerings. additionally, the CL-311 Selmer is not listed on WWBW and is shown as discontinued on Musician's Friend!
Synonymous Botch suggests the Ridenour 147. This horn has been recommended by a player in my band, but is above the price range I would like to stay within. Also, when instruments are available from just one or two sources the seem to be somewhat over priced for what you get. No silver plated keys, for example.
However, the majority here comment that plastic/hard rubber would be good for an adult beginner. Both Yamaha CL250 and Vito V40 are well supported here, other comments are still welcome!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-03-17 14:44
As if silver plated keys are universally considered superior....
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2004-03-17 14:51
Just wondering, are you also including used instruments? That would cut costs significantly and allow you to consider a couple models 'ranked' slightly higher than the ones you listed.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: BobD
Date: 2004-03-17 14:55
In my experience one should not necessarily equate hard rubber horns with so-called "plastic" ones. At least some of the plastic ones are made from thermoplastic resins (to my knowledge) whereas hard rubber is a thermoset. Hard rubber can contain a variety of fillers to modify the mechanical properties including toughness.
I have both kinds and the hard rubber horn is "different" from the others. This is not to say that the sound difference is all due to the difference in material. Theoretically the thermoplastic horns should be more resistant to impact than hard rubber ones......but I'm not convinced of that. As I think about the current reported quality of wood horns I'm leaning more and more towards hard rubber as a re-emerging technology.
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Author: lyn
Date: 2004-03-17 15:11
I figure if someone wants to spend $400-600, they should get the best horn they can for the money. Why not get a wood horn? Wood horns have depth to their sound. If a beginner can have a better instrument than a plastic beginner's horn (which also tends to have weaker keys), why not?
I have students who have bought E-11's for $500 new, they looked around a lot on the web and found some good deals. You can find them for $300-400 used, in very good shape most of the time. Also Yamaha makes some good intermediate level horns. A student of mine has a 52 that is really nice.
My only qualm with an older horn and a beginner is that a lot of times the keys are soft on older horns and beginners need something that is substantial and seals well, they don't need the frustration of leaks and that sort of thing. If you can find an R-13 ior older Selmer in that price range, nab it (unless it's full of repaired crackss!). But otherwise, I'd stick with the intermediate level.
Lynn
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Author: Greenie
Date: 2010-02-12 05:29
This is an old thread, but--as other older beginners may wander here too--I am wondering how you resolved this question and whether you were happy with your decision. As an over-50 beginner I rented an Andino. It's a decent horn and sounds OK. But my teacher encouraged me to purchase a Buffet E-11, new and inexpensively on the web, once I could "cross the break." A year later, though I know it's too late for me ever to learn how to play as well as Emma Johnson or Sabine Meyer, I am very glad he did. It's hard to warm up to rubber/plastic, and its sound is not as rich. I have found that the voice of a good wooden instrument can be a powerful motivator, as can the mere habit of caring for it. To me, the difference was profound, especially in the clarion and altissima registers. I wonder how your sister feels about the idea several have put forward here that her age means she shouldn't want a wooden instrument she could love playing, listening to, and caring for?
Post Edited (2010-02-12 05:38)
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-02-12 13:48
Sorry, Greenie, I am going to have to disagree (respectfully). My Ridenour Lyrique (hard rubber) produces beautiful tone, at LEAST the equal of any E11 I have ever come across. It has more to do with the design and the quality of the execution than it does with the material the horn is made of. E11 clarinets are ok for stepup/intermediate horns, but once can do far better for your $1000+ for a new instrument! Wnen you play on properly designed instruments. hard rubber (or composite) instruments are the equal of wood, and they don't crack.
Jeff
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Author: CWH
Date: 2010-02-12 13:57
You can't go wrong with the Lablanc Rapsodie, Wood intermediate model, silver plated keys. Further, worth consideration is the Leblanc Bliss.
Study, Practice, Play and Enjoy.
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Author: agclarinets
Date: 2010-02-12 20:34
Somehow, this thread's been revived... so I'll comment in case anyone else is reading it and looking for another opinion.
By no means am I a professional,, or anything. I consider myself a beginner, who started playing the clarinet after high school, and never took lessons. As a beginner, I can't say there such a difference between wood and plastic in sound- but with wood, she'll have to deal with caring for the instrument, which can be hassle, if this is something she's doing as a side hobby during her free time. I play a plastic Yamaha 20 (precursor to the 250- the 250 is now given a matt finish, to make it simulate wood), and it serves me fine. And it can be had for under 250 USD at Music Remasters (clarinuts.com). I am in no way affiliated with MrM, other than as a customer. Good Luck!
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