 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sgrubbs
Date: 2010-02-05 02:03
I have the opportunity to purchase 2 R-13 clarinets.
One is serial number 568888. It says it's made in Germany. The Buffet website says it's BC1131-2. What is that? What is the difference between having clarinets made in Germany and France?
The other one is serial number 468552. I can't even find the manufacturing date on this one.
Any ideas?
Stephanie
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Author: pewd
Date: 2010-02-05 02:11
all r-13's are made in france ; made in germany is 'probably' an E11
logo - painted on for e11s, engraved on R13's
lower joint - r13's have a cutout in the wood under the right side crows foot ;
e11's have no cut out
lower joint - banana key (B#, F# key).
This key is curved on a R13, mounted at a square, right angle on non-R13s.
do you have photos?
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: bombus
Date: 2010-02-05 02:39
The BC1131-2 indicates it's a silver plated R13 but I don't know about the made in Germany part.
Also to add to Paul, the R13's adjustable thumbrest has a screw that looks like a circle while most E11s have rings on the end of the screws
Post Edited (2010-02-05 02:49)
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Author: pewd
Date: 2010-02-05 03:20
the thumb rest isn't definitive, due to service history. e.g., i've seen r13 thumb rests replaced with the e11 type. i've done that myself when i run out of the R13 type thumb rests.
we really need photos...
if its stamped made in germany its not an r13
don't make your determination based on the serial number lookup - you need to examine the wood and keywork of the instrument in question
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Nightcrawler27
Date: 2010-02-05 03:29
Both my E-11s have engraved logos...but maybe they are no longer engraving them if pewd says they are painted on? I believe R13s have a Buffet logo engraved on the lower joint as well, while E-11s do not. Also my upper joints are clearly engraved with an "E-11" underneath the Buffet logo (above the A Key). Again, I'm not sure if there are E-11s that are not marked as such - but that's how mine are marked.
I have never heard of an R13 made in Germany. If you get a closer look, make sure the serial numbers match on the upper and lower joints, because someone could have switched out the lower joint or scratched out the S/N in an attempt to make people think the instrument is an R13 because the lower joint wouldn't say "Made in Germany" anymore (or like mine, "Made in W. Germany"). Those serial numbers you provided are pretty high numbers, so the instruments should be made fairly recently (maybe late 90's?).
To add to the confusion, there are E-11s being made in France now. But still they are clearly marked as E-11s on the upper joint.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2010-02-05 04:24
ok, that jogged my memory.
on the older e11s the logos are engraved (and the lower joint left side keys the tabs were metal, not the plastic pins on the newer ones) .
newer (last, oh, 15-20 years?) they were painted.
some photos of the logos are here: http://www.abimusic.com/s-21-buffet-clarinets.aspx
i still haven't touched one of the made in france e11's yet.
r13s - yes, the logo is engraved on both the upper and lower joints.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: susieray
Date: 2010-02-05 15:55
Also, if it were an R13 it would have the Buffet logo engraved on the lower joint; the German-made instruments do not. The German keywork is different also, especially the bridge keys which have the "wings" on the lower joint rather than on the upper like the professional models.
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Author: Nightcrawler27
Date: 2010-02-05 17:37
At the risk of threadjacking, I was wondering if it is appropriate to ask in this thread what the differences are between an old vs new E-11 and compare it to the R13? Obviously there have been some changes. Should that be a new thread? I have relatively older E-11s and it sounds like they are nothing like the E-11s made today, especially since Buffet started making them in France.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2010-02-06 13:24
No doubt in my mind that the "older" R13s are very good horns but it always bothered me that there was never an "R13" designation engraved on them. Now, in today's market how do we really know where current R13s are made. Are you ready for "Made in China with German Technology" marketing lingo?
Bob Draznik
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Author: pewd
Date: 2010-02-06 16:50
I agree with Bob - stamp the silly things with 'R13, E11, whatever'
On newer Buffet's they engrave the barrels and bells Bb or A, length on the barrel, etc. I can't think of a reason why they couldn't also mark the bodies with R13 B, R13 A, F Bb, P A, T B, E11 B, E11 A, ... whatever.
There are other things they need to fix first however.
Anyway, where did the OP go?
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Nightcrawler27
Date: 2010-02-06 16:54
If Buffets start getting made in China, I might as well just buy a set of Ridenour Lyriques if/when I ever want a new set of professional instruments. Sure they're made in China too, and they're not wood, but at least I know at the end of the line, there is a world famous professional clarinet maker in Texas finishing off the instrument and making sure it is not a piece of junk.
This is actually pretty common practice with other types of instruments, especially in the world of luthiers. Many popular independent hand made guitar makers in the US actually have the bodies, necks, etc cut and assembled in a developing country and then ship them to the US to the luthier for fine tuning, finishing, etc.
On the other hand, I can't imagine Buffet allowing their instruments to be made in China...especially their Greenline products. If they did, I'd give it about a year before some other Chinese company "mysteriously" figured out their formula and manufacturing process for the Greenline material and comes out with their own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-02-07 03:28
The Buffet student plastic models (like B10, etc.) are already made in China.
Post Edited (2010-02-07 03:28)
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