 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Tim T.
Date: 2000-12-04 18:30
I am having, and have always had a terrible time keeping the rythm. I have all the mechanics down cold, but my foot just does not work for doted quarters.
Anyways, I am taking lessons, and the instructor stops me all the time. He tells me that I am either going to fast or to slow!!!!. I also bought a metronome, and I practice with it. Plus, I have bought the play along books and CD's, and try to practice my rythm by playing with the music. I normally stop at least 50 times, and start over again before I get a piece of music down.
Are there any tricks that I might do to help this process along, or am I just doomed.
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Author: Bob Curtis
Date: 2000-12-04 19:52
Tim T:
This is a common problem among younger players and some older ones also. Take hope. There are several thing which you can do to help correct it.
First thing, develop a positive attitude about this situation in that you are going to overcome this problem!!!
Next few items will be more technical.
1. Do you have a system of verbally counting out a passage so that you will know exactly where you are in any passage? If not you need to get someone to show you one, or contact me by e-mail and I will try to help explain it more fully.
2 Do not make the mistake that you have to play all the way through a piece to practice it. FALSE!!! Work on a difficult passage in small sections until you get these down very well, and then proceed. Make your fingers move deliberately from one note to the other very slowly and with force — you will be teaching your fingers and muscles what you want them to do. YOU will gain control and not have the CLARINET control you. When you get this down, move on to the next section, do the same thing, and add to what you have done.
3. After you begin to gain some more confidence by practicing slowly and deliberatley THEN pick up the speed. Speed for speed's sake will not accomplish anything except frustration and disappointment. If you can't do it fast, slow down and try again. Then pick it up again a LITTLE faster to see if you can play it. Don't go over your comfortable speed until you know that you can do it slowly — then move on.
4. Take a break every once in a while to clear the cob-webs from your mind. It does help. Then come back and try again.
I hope these hints will help you. Let me know how you are geting along.
Bob Curtis
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Author: S.Koumas
Date: 2000-12-04 20:28
Hi i had exactly the same problem and to some extent still do!
What i do is basically take each bar apart e.g. Lets use 4/4
you count 1 2 3 4 (but you can make it in to quavers as below)
1 & 2 & 3 & 4
and if the bar is still difficult i make them in to semi-quavers like below
1a&e 2a&e 3a&e 4a&e
I know the above is gonna look weird to most people but this was really works for me! It helps me to identify etc...
Try it and see!! What you gotta loose!
Good Luck mate!
S.Koumas
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Author: Yusuf Zaid
Date: 2000-12-04 21:05
From Yusuf
Bob's advice is very good. I had similar problems when I started and someone told me very much what Bob said and now I don't have any trouble with keeping the beat.
Good luck!
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Author: Kim L.
Date: 2000-12-04 22:42
Rhythm is very tough to learn! I still have problems! :( It is annoying when an entire ensemble stops just because you are not counting correctly.
Anyway, if you find a difficult section, play it SLOWLY with the metronome. Playing it fast will only gum things up. Speed the tempo up gradually. You will learn the technique as well as rhythm. You will also gain confidence in your playing.
Another thing. Never say you can't. Saying "I can't" will merely make you feel worse about yourself and make you more frustrated. Say that you can and keep on playing until it is right.
Good luck.
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Author: mw
Date: 2000-12-04 23:05
There are so many ways to count, that we TRY is the important thing. No one has a free pass on this one!
Bob & others comments are right on!
Hey was it ... "1 E & UH" was that from Eastman School @ Rochester? Seems like someone told that is where thye had learned that "pattern" of counting.
Best of luck to all.
mw
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Author: Anji
Date: 2000-12-04 23:50
Tim,
Just to muddy the waters, is the metronome one that tracks left and right?
I can't use one of the flashing light versions, as there's no way to anticipate the next beat.
The old Talktels work for me.
Bob's tips are excellent, they pretty much tell the whole story.
With my metronome, I start with the setting much slower than the written pace.
As I get familiar widda piece, I advance the speed "One click at a time." as recommended by David Pino.
Don't sweat the teacher interrupting, that means they're attentive.
I would worry more about a teacher that said, "Evryting jost fayn, mon."
This is a devil of an instrument, you should be proud of the accomplishments you make!
Go gettem' tiger
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Author: Bob Curtis
Date: 2000-12-05 01:16
Response to mv —
Your are not going to believe this, but I learned
this method in one of my theory classes at the University of Texas around 1950 and I believe my teacher learned it from an instructor at Eastman. Does that give you a clue to how long I have been around? It was good then and it is STILL good today.
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Author: Bob Curtis
Date: 2000-12-05 02:05
Note to mv -
As I said, it has been at least 50 years since I studied theory at the University of Texas and this was the method of counting which we were taught.. I believe that my instructor learned it from a teacher at Eastmen. It was a good method then and it remains a good PROVEN method even today.
That lets you know how long I have been around, huh???
Bob Curtis,
BobCPhoto@wcnet.net
P.S. As my e-mail name suggests.,I am also a retired professional photographer, specializing in portraits and weddings for over 26 years on a part time basis. Had a studio in a converted 2-car garage. Didn't have anything else to do with my SPARE time, so I figured I'd make some money!!!
B.C.
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Author: Chelsea
Date: 2000-12-05 02:38
I find that tonguing the 16th note subdivisions helps a person know exactly where the notes will fall within the beat. I use the metronome at the same time, clicking either 8th or quarter notes. If that freaks you out, just go with the subdivision practice. You'll know what works and what doesn't. Once you feel comfortable with that, play as written but still think of tonguing the 16ths in your mind. Subdividing is the most accurate method of placing the divisions of the beat correctly, and this works well for people who have trouble hearing the subidivisions initially.
As mentioned before, practicing in chunks and taking the tempo very slowly is the quickest way to gain rhythmic integrity.
If you want further explanation or if this doesn't make sense, please email me and I can explain further.
good luck and I hope this helps!
-chelsea
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Author: Jim
Date: 2000-12-05 02:55
Try saying the rythms in time (with or without the metronome) before playing them. (This is often done in choirs, especially when not all read music.) I learned the 1 E & UH pattern in Atlantic City in 1962, the teacher had studied at American University, I don't know where he picked it up, it does work! Triplets can be 1 & UH or I learned to use the word "merrily" Try keeping time strictly to the metronome, just beat along with it until you can keep a steady beat thet even syncopation won't disrupt. Use various tempi from 60 to 120 or so. Remember, 60 is the same as the second hand on a watch, you can practice it anywhere. If you have a chance to take marching anywhere, this will help reinforce a beat. (or drive you nuts!) Certain dance classes done to a drum beat will do the same.
Best to you!
Jim
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2000-12-05 03:02
Welcome aboard.......This is the number one problem for most of us. I started taking lessons and the teacher said I was playing from memory. I said no way I can't remember one note after another. He said no that I was doing the rythm from memory and anyone who plays this way always plays it wrong. He was right. Now it is back to 1 2 3 4.
I would suggest you pick your pieces. Start with a lot of whole and half note and then go to 1/8 notes. Don't start with 1/16 or you will go crazy. Also take a pencil and write the count under each note and try to get a feel of each measure.
Also pick the easy scales to start with. It is easier to play the key of C then it is to play C# major.
It is one day and one note at a time. If it were easy I would be great.
Peace
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Author: Eoin McAuley
Date: 2000-12-05 07:41
The Kodaly rhythm names work very well. There is a name for each type of note. These naturally have the same rhythm when you say them as the notes. The rhythm names for some common notes are as follows:
taw crothchet (quarter note)
teetee two quavers (eighth notes)
tee quaver (eighth note)
tirry two semiquavers (sixteenth notes)
taw-aw minim (half note)
taw-umty dotted crotchet followed by quaver (dotted quarter followed by eighth)
sh a rest
Say the rhythm names and clap the rhythm at the same time. When you are happy with this, sing the tune and clap the rhythm at the same time. Only when this is OK do you actually play it on the clarinet.
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Author: Robin
Date: 2000-12-05 11:00
Another option for semiquaver subdivision which has helped me greatly in the past is:
Ta Fa Te Fe , Ta Fa Te Fe
I practice this as I'm walking to the train station or up to the shops, and experiment by leaving different parts of the subdivision out. So a simple dotted rhythm, for instance would be: Ta - - Fe, Ta - - Fe, Ta etc
A repeated pattern of a quaver followed by two semiquavers would become:
Ta - Te Fe, Ta - Te Fe etc
And so on.
This is a form of Solfeg, I believe. My rhythm has improved out of sight as a result. Whatever happens, just remember your rhythm can't be worse than the string section's!
Robin
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Author: Rene
Date: 2000-12-05 12:31
The method of subdivision (lets call it such), is really good for swing material with fancy rythms. It isthe way the Swing feels.
E.g. "I've got rythm" can be played with a quarter break, then four dotted quarters carrying the words "I've got ryth-m", then a quarter break, yielding 8 quarters total. This would be deeda deedadee dadeeda deedadee dadeeda deeda. If it helps to think in such fast deedas is not really clear to me. But the feeling is such.
For classical music, I prefer to count as big units as possible.
Rene
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Author: Bob Curtis
Date: 2000-12-05 13:46
Everyone -
All of your suggestions have been very good. One very important thing about the so Called "Eastman" method of counting is the following — you use the NUMBER in the beginning of each batch , i.e. 1 & 2 &, 1-e-&-a 2-e-&-a, etc. You always know EXACTLY what beat you are on. Some of the other methods could be easily adapted to this ny using the number at the beginning, but for early learners I find it terribly important for them to KNOW EXACTlY WHICH beat they are on so they will know WHEN to come in and on WHICH COUNT (or part thereof) to stop, etc. It just seems to work better, at least for me and my students. Comments???
Bob Curtis
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Author: William
Date: 2000-12-05 14:20
All the above advice is good. One addtional suggestion--try "jamming" along with CDs, the radio, TV or just by yourself, BY EAR. In other words, try learning to play jazz or improv. This may enhance your auditory prowness and help you be more sensitive to the rhythms of music. Just a thought. Good luck.
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Author: Ginny
Date: 2000-12-05 16:08
EAROBICS (The new name is "Earope", at WWW.COPE.DK ) is a program available for too much money, about the price of one month of lessons. I've used it with one of my kids, who's suffered from the dread disease Spastic Arhythmia. I did have to help him learn to get on the beat intially... so I don't know if you could get on the first step without assistance.
First, and very important...Learn rhythm away from the instrument. One thing at a time, start by just tapping quarters on the beat.
So we used earobics to just play quarter notes on the beat. It took a while. Now he can read most mixes of rests, quarter, eighths, halves with dotted rhythms! We've been at this a little less than a year.
He now plays in rhythmn most of the time, sometimes he so rhythmic its magic. By practicing rhythm alone!
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-12-05 23:27
The "1 e & uh 2 e & uh" and so on for 16ths is the same counting technique shown in the Rubank Elementary Method Book originally published back in the 1930s. So I would hazard a guess that this system goes back even further.
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Author: Bob Curtis
Date: 2000-12-06 20:01
Jim:
To keep the "uh" in its correct perspective as to its exact value (i.e. sixteenth note, etc.) and location within the beat I was taught the triplet method using the following: 1-la-lee, 2-la-lee, etc. This keeps the triplets as triplets and not a misplaced sixteenth note. Call it splitting hairs if you will, but it works better for me. You can go on spliting from there by further splitting and different syllables to be sure of the exact portion of the beat about which you are talking. In other words, exactness of the beat as much as is possible.
Bob Curtis
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Author: Rene
Date: 2000-12-07 06:03
Just one more question.
I always have troubles with triplets. E.g., two quarters followed by a quarter triplet (together four quarters), to mention an easier example. I then retract on couting halfs, one divided into two and the other into three. An alternative would be to subdivide into 12th as 3-3-2-2-2, which I find unntatural.
The topic becomes more complicated in rythms like in the moonlight serenade (you now taaaaaa-tada-taaaaaa-tada-taa-tada-taa-tada-ta-ta . Here I really start thinking in 12th.
Rene
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-12-08 06:03
Do any of you have any tricks to doing syncopations? Stuff where the line avoids the beat, or plays 3 against 2, and that sort of thing? By way of example think of Simon & Garfunkel's 59th Street Bridge Song, "I'm dappled and drowsy and ready to sleep, let the morningtime drop all its petals on me". And then there are all those types of music in which the written music suggests the rythmn as best it can, but you sort of have to know how it is, or you can't play it properly, like Calypso, and some types of Jazz, and Ragtime. Its fascinating, and not always easy to get a handle on. I'm not reading music any more, just playing by ear, which sort of trades in one set of difficulties for another. I find that my musical memory leaves a lot to be desired--like what Bob Gardiner was saying. I make a lot of rythmic and melodic mistakes due to faulty memory. On the other hand it is easy to feel the sense and mood of the music, and it is much easier to play expressively. I seem to have wandered off of the thread. . . .
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-12-08 18:51
Ken,
if there's a music school near you teaching Dalcroze Eurhythmics you might look into it. You'll end up being able to feel and do rhythms you never even knew existed when you're done :^)
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Author: Lindsey
Date: 2000-12-10 02:16
Well, I've had the same problem this year as my first year finally with a real private instructor even after playing the clarinet for 7 years. He's making me subdivide everything like mentioned by many people different methods above. One thing that is also helping me get the harder rhythms is to start out taking it slowly with the metronome and work my way up until I'm playing the proper tempo.
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