 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2010-01-23 13:43
do you hold the flame on the key cup -or- near the key cup? how long do you keep it there?
why all this heating and melting of glue anyway? cant houshold goop work just as well?
where i work we have used household goop to glue on resin figurines to nickel plated bottle toppers and it works just fine.
or is the problem that the glue cant be easily cleaned out when the pad needs to be replaced again?
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-01-23 13:53
FWIW I hold the (bic lighter) flame ~10 seconds under the cup. Not so close that I soot the cup.
Per the glue - I've used PVA (aka "plain old white") glue for pads, and there's worse stuff you could use. Bit of heat and the glue will come off easily. Definitely less messy than hot-melt glue or shellac. You have plenty of time to reseat the pads, but you must use it sparingly, else it will take forever to dry and the shrinking can have detrimental effects on the seat of the pad.
I haven't tried silicone-based stuff, however.
(I know that I will get flamed by every self-respecting repairer, but just because something has been done this and that way for two hundred years doesn't mean something is the only way to happiness.)
--
Ben
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-01-23 15:04
The purpose of using shellac or another heat sensitive glue is to allow the pad to be "floated" and adjusted to get it seated absolutely level all around.
You should heat the side of the cup by holding it almost vertical and virtually in the edge of the flame.
How long depends on the heat of the flame, closeness to flame and of course the heat sensitivity of your chosen glue.
In general terms we are probably looking at 3-10 secs but of course it depends much on practice and experience.
The glue must become plastic but not too fluid during adjustment.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-01-24 04:03
I mostly use an alcohol lamp for pads (sometimes a torch but usually prefer the lamp). It doesn't blacken keys like a lighter.
For melting the glue and gluing the pad I just hold the key right above the flame. If I want to heat the key while it's on the clarinet I do it the same way Norman Smale explained. I prefer to do this the least necessary by aligning the key over the tone hole as much as possible.
I also agree about time, 3-10 seconds. This depends on many things like the type of glue, the amount of glue (which depends on the shape of the key cup), the size of the key, how hot the key was before, etc.
There are many advantages to heat melting glue. You can heat the glue to adjust. Dries very fast so can imediately play after changing the pad, there is always going back if the glue dries and the pad isn't the most accurate, etc. etc. You can search here on the forum, just recently I posted an explanation of why I don't like non-heat glues like silicone glue.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2010-01-24 14:15
Tictactux wrote "...
(I know that I will get flamed by every self-respecting repairer, but just because something has been done this and that way for two hundred years doesn't mean something is the only way to happiness.)"
I'm happy to do that flaming on behalf of all semi-adept technicians and others too.
It has absolutely nothing to do with how LONG shellac or other hot-melt has been used.
Quite simply, for reasons already explained, and many related ones, these hot-melt glues do a far better job, far quicker. I doubt that any thinking technician would use PVA! Ear wax would be better!
Please do not take your instruments to me, or any other capable technician after you have used PVA, and please tell anyone you sell these instruments to, just what you have done!
Janlyn, what is "household goop". My household has many different types of glue, and none of them are called goop.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-01-24 15:10
Gordon (NZ) wrote:
> Quite simply, for reasons already explained, and many related ones,
> these hot-melt glues do a far better job, far quicker. I doubt that any
> thinking technician would use PVA! Ear wax would be better!
Hmm. Ear wax...now there's an idea... ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
> Please do not take your instruments to me, or any other capable
> technician after you have used PVA, and please tell anyone you sell
> these instruments to, just what you have done!
Oh, I wouldn't ever sell such an instrument to anyone. For these I only use traditional, well-established, compatible methods. "Experimental" methods are no good for anyone else except the experimenter. One doesn't do that with "commercial grade" equipment.
I tried out this method to repad one of my own instruments, just to see what's hot and what's not. That specific instrument still has these pads (3 years later) and none has wandered away or fallen off. I did remove one of the pads to see how big a mess I'd have, and after heating it a bit I could just peel it out without a trace.
All in all I consider PVA to be superior to self-adhesive pads, but probably nothing to bother the average buyer with; too slow a method, and too much 'splaining involved. Not to mention the requirement of flame-retardant underwear...
I just thought I'd toss in this thought as "household goop" (some silicone-based glue, as far as google told me) has been mentioned.
--
Ben
Post Edited (2010-01-24 15:11)
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2010-01-24 15:29
"household goop" i'm not really sure what it is. we get these tubes of glue at work to glue resin products and the tube says household goop. lol
but now that i know some reasons why it is better to he glue pellets or the like.... i wont be using the household goop.
i just got an old bundy and want to learn how to repad. i have 3 repair books and none really explain how in nice detail or have clear pictures. thats why i keep asking questions.
and thanks for all the help!! I appreciate it.
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