 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-01-23 13:40
Discuss.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2010-01-23 13:56
IMO they're here to protect, not to force stuff together.
I don't care whether or not they are made by Blessing. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-01-23 14:57
I'm all for them as long as properly applied. The type that leave some or most of the end grain of the tenon are to be preferred.
I cannot agree with Tom (earlier post) that they cause bore damage. I have seen countless R13s and others all without rings yet with swollen and distorted bores near top of the top joint. From my experience in servicing many hundreds of clarinets over recent years I am convinced that this is brought about by a combination of factors including
- wood quality and maturity
- failure to properly and regulary swab the bore
- leaving joints assembled with water trapped between tenon and socket
- failure to oil the wood, especially in the early years with particular attention to the end grain and bore between speaker and barrel
- playing new instruments for too long too early
etc. etc
My 50 year old Leblancs have metal rings and bores still accurate to 0.001 inch from new.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-01-23 14:59
I'd rather see metal tenon rings fitted on wooden tenons than none at all as you know the lower tenon rings haven't been damaged by someone's poor attempt at 'fitting' the tenon to the socket, or rounded off or worn down by excessive sanding when replacing tenon corks (remember to sand the cork and NOT the tenon!).
They add strength to the end of the tenon, seal the end grain to prevent water soaking into the ends of tenons and don't cause cracks (as some might think) - most cracks occur on the top joint below the top tenon on clarinets and that's at the wider diameter of the joint, not the narrower diameter of the tenon.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2010-01-23 15:08)
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Author: ISM
Date: 2010-01-23 16:10
Thanks, Chris P, for posting this question. After S.H.J. raised this issue the other day and referred to Tom Ridenour's video on the subject, I watched it, and it left me scratching my head. I respect Mr. Ridenour for his obvious knowledge and experience, but some of his views seem quite contrarian, and I have a hard time deciding what I think of his arguments.
My Amati clarinet with the C#/G# hole through the middle tenon has a metal cap. It seems to me that at least in this situation, the metal cap is a good idea. Right?
Imre
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2010-01-23 16:38
It seems to me the ONLY reason it is not applied to all clarinets (of wood) is to save on cost and labor (must take some doing to actually fit the sleeves to their respective ends).
In fact the Selmer Pivilege features a metal sleeve in the top of the bottom joint (more of a curse?) as well. So if you can insure that you will never have the issues associated with swollen tenons why would you EVER do without the solution?
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2010-01-23 21:56
Selmer for many years put tenon rings on the top of the upper joint of Centered Tones, and and some top models had rings on all tenons. Never saw any trouble with any of these.
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2010-01-24 04:06
I've had Bb clarinets with and without metal tenon rings. Both instruments cracked in the same three places. So, based on my experience they certainly don't hurt...but they don't help either.
Tom really knows his stuff, so there is certainly great validity in his well-thought out argument. It's just not what I experienced.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2010-01-24 14:02
I consider them to have several benefits, and have no complaint with them.
When tubing expands, both the outer AND inner diameters normally INCREASE. They certainly do for materials such as metals.
If the outer diameter of a tube is restricted from expanding, and the material was subject to conditions that would normally make it expand, then I would expect the result to be circumferential compression. In turn, I would expect that to induce SOME increase in wall thickness according to Poisson's Ratio. I have no idea what Poisson's ration would be for timber with the grain perpendicular to these strains. In theory then, I suspect that a timber tenon restricted by metal, when induced by increase in moisture content, could possibly suffer a reduction in internal diameter....
So some time ago, when this argument arose with respect to tenon receivers that had metal rings around them, I carried out a test on a very dry, timber barrel with rings. I measured the barrel's sockets' inner diameters as accurately as possible, in several locations. Then I soaked that barrel for many hours in water. On measuring again, I found no significant change in diameter.
So I suspect Tom R may have to look elsewhere for an explanation for shrinking bore diameters.
(As for Tom's promotion of plastic over metal for mouthpiece caps... A person idiot enough to smash his metal cap into the end of his mouthpiece would be idiot enough to also dig his fingernails into the pads. He should not be near a clarinet. On the other hand, I have seen many, many split plastic caps. my choice is metal. BTW I am not completely contrary... I agree with Tom re "Pad Savers" for clarinets - but only if they are kept inside the clarinet.)
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2010-01-24 14:21
I have cheap clarinets without tenon rings, expensive clarinets without tenon rings, expensive clarinets with tenon rings but i've not seen cheap clarinets with tenon rings so i'm included to agree with Paul that it's a cost issue. None of my horns have ever had a crack where there was a tenon ring or where a tenon ring would have been had rings been fitted. The only cracking was years ago on a B&H Imperial. I'm thinking that since most of my clarinets are older it may have more to do with the quality of the wood and being reasonably careful to swab out and keep them out of extremes of temp. & humidity
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