 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: TPeterson
Date: 2010-01-21 14:15
How do the playing characteristics of mouthpieces change as you lengthen the facing? For example, Clark Fobes makes several mouthpieces with a 1.04 tip opening in lengths ranging from 16mm (Cicero 13) to 19mm (Europa 2). I plan to make a little trip to woodwind and brasswind and try all of them to "feel" and "hear" for myself, but I'm curious what those different characteristics do in general. I've read Tom Ridenour's article on mouthpiece facings, but I'm still not clear on what might happen if you keep one variable static (such as the tip opening) and change the other.
Tim Peterson
Band Director & Clarinetist
Ionia, MI
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2010-01-21 14:20
>> as you lengthen the facing
Reeds feel softer. But other things change too as the mouthpiece (in effect)sits differently on the lip.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-01-21 14:29
It is my opinion that it depends on the player. Some players take more or less mouthpiece in their mouth and some players have thicker or thinner lips. So as an example, if a players normally takes a little bit of mouthpiece in their mouth than using the smaller length facing with the same tip opening should feel more comfortable and playing a longer length will make it more difficult to control and will need more lip pressure to get the same result. You're doing the right thing by trying them out. Besides, every mouthpiece of the same facing and make will play slightly different. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-01-21 14:31
Keeping the interior dimensions and the tip opening constant, lengthening the curve will make it less resistant and make the tone more what some would call "bright" and others would call "intense." A longer curve, again in comparison to an identical blank with the same tip opening, will need a reed with more heart strength to prevent its closing too easily.
Karl
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Author: Ed
Date: 2010-01-21 15:49
I have found that it is especially helpful to contact Clark about the playing characteristics of each style. He lists the facing length and tip, but there are also differences in other dimensions as well, which change the playing characteristics.
Clark is very good about responding to questions.
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Author: TPeterson
Date: 2010-01-22 22:51
Clark's response to my email the same day I started this thread:
"When you elongate the facing and leave the tip opening the same, the reed bends at a lower fulcrum point which brings more of the reed into vibration. This can make the sound somewhat darker, but it also reduces the response It also has the effect of making the facing feel as if it is more closed than it is."
Ed Palanker,
You hit on what I suspected to be true, but have been unable to really put my finger on. A few years ago when I was having some work done on my Bb, the repair technician suggested I try the new (at the time) Vandoren M30. He happened to have about a dozen in the shop, so I played all of them. One specimen in particular had a beautiful sound and very smooth, supple flexibility. I liked it so much better than the mouthpiece I was using that I bought it. In the last year I have begun to play and practice a lot more again, and find that as much as I love the M30 there is something about it that I find inherently uncomfortable for me. I'm not sure if it's the long lay, profile 88 beak, my face, or a combination of all of those things. I feel as though I have to work very hard and take A LOT of mouthpiece in my mouth to get the best sound and CONTROL-- especially in arpeggiated passages into the altissimo register. It's not a matter of things speaking or not, it's a matter of control. Surely my embouchure is responsible for most issues I may or may not have as a player, but I certainly don't need to use a mouthpiece that seems to increase rather than decrease the challenge. I'm looking forward to trying several mouthpieces side by side!
Tim Peterson
Band Director & Clarinetist
Ionia, MI
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2010-01-23 01:55
Tim P.,
I feel like I have a very similar situation to your's. When I picked out my M30, I picked it because of the beautiful tone and comfort it gave. However, I've also found that I have to take in a lot of mouthpiece to get the best sound -- an amount more than what is comfortable for me; I also feel that I have to work harder than I probably should be in the altissimo register. My teacher commented on how great my sound was in the chalmeau and clarion registers, but he noted that my altissimo register wasn't as good.
I've read that a long facing favors the lower registers (lots of resonance?) but sacrifices the altissimo register, especially in response (in my case, it seems to me response and tone). I wonder if this could be why I'm experiencing some difficulties in the altissimo. I'm also wondering if I should get my mouthpiece refaced to see if that would help with my problems.
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2010-01-23 03:55
Clark, of course, has a very good answer. All other things staying equal, a longer facing can make a darker, more resonant sound, but can begin to affect response. That's why we balance these things with various tip openings and the OTHER MEASUREMENTS of the facing. Everyone discuses facing length and tip opening, but there are two more areas we measure on a soprano clarinet mouthpiece and three others on larger mouthpieces.
In my view of the world, the most crucial measurement is the one we measure with the .010 gauge. This is where the reed begins to leave the facing under playing conditions. No one talks about this measurement, but it really determines the "playing comfort" of the mouthpiece.
As I understand it, for best control this measurement should line up with where your lower teeth support your lip, given some leeway for the thickness of the lower lip. If you are not "lined up" with this measurement, due to the way you are made, the mouthpiece will never feel realy comfortable.
I'm actually agreeing with Ed's comment but in a way that corresponds with the way mouthpiece facings are designed.
It's also the reason why we have so many different mouthpiece makers, models, and facings out there. You need to find what fits your particular oral configuration. Doesn't matter if it works for some one else, or some great player. It has to fit your mouth.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
Buffet bass clarinets
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2010-01-23 05:24
I am responding as a player and not as a craftsman.
And I play on one of Walter's mouthpieces, which I have enjoyed with great enthusiasm. So if he says anything about any technical issues regarding measurements etc it should be heeded.
Speaking as a player here are some general observations:
1) Mouthpieces will drive you nuts. So unless you really have a grounded concept of what you want with regards to feel and sound, you are just shooting into a barrel of fish.
2) Longer facings make for harder reeds in order to produce volume that will work in a professional setting. It's harder to produce volume with a close facing, so unless you play in Boston's Symphony Hall, the Musik Verein in Vienna, or the Berlin Philharomonie, you better think about having something more open.
3) The rails have as much effect as the break of the vamp. The whole Eastman school (Pyne, Johnston) is based on thick rails (both tip and side) that make for a "dark" sound but diminish one's ability to articulate.
4) The chamber and baffle have much to do with the appeal of how a mouthpiece feels. The material is also important, but some craftsmen give this too much importance.
5)The feel of the mouthpiece and how it sounds is a complicated mix of all these ingredients and the reed as well. That's why I truly believe the mouthpiece of the future will function on a synthetic reed such as the Legere as a synthetic reed will remove one of the variables of what makes a good mouthpiece.
6) While there are many mouthpieces to chose from, there are few players that have a truly great sound. And those that do play on a wide variety of equipment.
7) That leads us back to Item 1
Have fun on this quest and if you meet Parsifal along the way, say hi from me.
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Author: TPeterson
Date: 2010-01-23 22:35
Thanks again for the responses to the questions. How does one go about measuring one's "oral configuration?"
Tim Peterson
Band Director & Clarinetist
Ionia, MI
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Author: TPeterson
Date: 2010-01-25 04:28
An interesting side note-- because Legere reeds are translucent, after playing for a few minutes you can almost see clearly THROUGH the reed the "line" where it begins to leave the mouthpiece. It is then possible to measure how much reed is vibrating on any given mouthpiece. This method is probably not very accurate (give or take a mm) but still interesting to note how different the length of facings can be and try to adjust your "bite" accordingly. It certainly makes me more aware of comfort. For example, I have an older mouthpiece that I think fits my mouth better, but doesn't play nearly as well as my M30. If I can just find one that incorporates the good qualities of each...
Tim Peterson
Band Director & Clarinetist
Ionia, MI
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