 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2010-01-17 00:49
Today, I decided to go and find out about Amati 351 for myself, and I ended up spending 3 hours at the music store making a fool of myself in their practice room, playing a few Clarinets.
While there, using my own mp, I swapped between my LB310, the 351 in C, an Amati in Bb and an E11 in A. Suffice to say that I burned away my hours there pretty quickly.
The strange things that I've found is that the Amati remains eternally flat, hovering at 25 below generally for me, no matter what I do, although it got better in terms of tonal response as I play on it more. The instrument at first felt a little... is timid the right word?
It was odd, but I've immediately noticed that C was a blast to mess around with. There's something that is carefree... descent recorder like with its tighter spacing and smaller size that somehow got to me quickly, and it's got this bright nature to it...
This feeling of instrument 'waking up' of sorts was exhibited over the E11 in A. It also is peculiar that I would feel that the horn in A is a bit... too serious almost. It feels a bit reluctant comparing to a Bb or the C instrument to make sound. However, even to me, a novice, this E11 in A admittedly makes for far easier time with some passages.
For the consistancy in the flat response I got in Amati, I am guessing that a true mouthpiece in C would solve that nicely... but...I don't know if I am being delusional in feeling that the grenadilla instruments liven up once warmed up. This has never been a concern for someone like me that's lived strictly off of composites, so I was hoping for someone to shed some light on that.
My second question is whether or not I am right to conclude that altissimo fingerings for C would be different from the Bb. I was never able to use the same fingering beyond C6 to get what I wanted out of the horn.
Lastly, would be if whether or not I am just being purely subjective when I enjoy the C far more than the A?
Thank you.
Post Edited (2010-01-17 04:01)
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Author: William
Date: 2010-01-17 16:14
Yes, wood needs warm-up time for optimum intonation. A clarinets, on the average, have more resistance than smaller Bb's. However, I was lucky enough to find a R13 A that matches my R13 Bb almost exactly in resistance and intonation. And, I too find the C clarinet really fun to play. I look forward to every time I get a chance to use it, only opting out if the switch from Bb or A is too quick and short to make it practical--in which case, I just transpose the C part. But C clarinet is fun, at least, for me. FWIW. the hardest clarinet for me to play well--the dreaded effer........
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2010-01-17 19:35
YES, warm up your wooden instrument. If it is cold, and you heat the inside quickly, the bore-side of the walls will try to expand and put the outer wall in tension --and that can crack the wood.
Also, sound waves travel faster in warm air and raise the pitch. Amazingly enough, the cool walls of the clarinet will cool the air and lower the pitch --even if that air is moving through the horn all the time.
It sounds like a fun time you had with all those horns to play with. BUT, each of those instruments is different from its sister. You could have had a different impression of the A if you'd been using a different instrument. That's why we have to audition a whole passel of horns to pick one that we really love.
Bob Phillips
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-01-17 22:01
Bob Phillips wrote:
> Also, sound waves travel faster in warm air and raise the
> pitch. Amazingly enough, the cool walls of the clarinet will
> cool the air and lower the pitch --even if that air is moving
> through the horn all the time.
>
Just as a detail, I'm not sure i understand why the _speed_ of sound would have any effect on its pitch. If the compression cycles in a sound occur at a specific time interval (the frequency of the generator's vibration), why does it matter how soon those compressions reach a hearer's ear or a sound meter's sensor (the speed at which the compressions travel)?
Isn't there actual expansion of the bore as the instrument warms up (as you describe "the bore-side of the walls will try to expand and put the outer wall in tension") that explains at least some of the rise in pitch?
Karl
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Author: Franklin Liao
Date: 2010-01-17 22:31
Thank you for the replies.
Well, I suppose that arguably, the relationship between the ambient temperature of the room, the temperature of the air column coming into the bore, the humidity of the said air, and the degree in which the wood would expand through absorbing water vapor all come to play, but exactly how they all react I darenot speculate.
All I can say is that the internal temperature of the room that I was in was around 20 something Celsius, and it's pretty dry...
By the way, just today, I found out that by loosening the metal Bonade ligature on the Cadanza stock mouthpiece that I use for my LB310 a little instead of really clamping the reed down, I get a more reliable, less squeaky, and less resistive C6 and up. Never was I able to hit G6, but it suddenly happened and now it seems to be somewhat 'tolerable' to hear this 3rd range. Perhaps having the ligature too tightly secured was what caused the altissimo fingering puzzle over the Amati C yesterday.
EDIT: I am getting a reduction of resistance across the board, and it's translating into better fluidity and more articulate movements out of this... it's like having lead weights taken off of me.
Post Edited (2010-01-17 22:47)
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Author: timg
Date: 2010-01-18 00:58
kdk wrote:
> Just as a detail, I'm not sure i understand why the _speed_ of sound
> would have any effect on its pitch.
The frequency of the sound wave is given by the speed-of-sound divided by the wavelength. The wavelength inside the clarinet is determined by the dimensions of the instrument (which of course does not change appreciably with temperature), so the pitch is proportional to the speed-of-sound *inside* the instrument.
A temperature change of 20C will alter the speed of sound by just over 3%, and result in the pitch shifting by roughly a quarter tone.
The effect is analogous to the old party trick of breathing helium from a balloon to make a funny voice. Sound travels faster in helium, changing the natural resonances of the vocal tract.
Come to think of it, carbon dioxide has a pretty dramatic effect on the speed of sound. So I'm wondering: do wind players keep away from fizzy drinks before a performance?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-01-18 04:43
>> The effect is analogous to the old party trick of breathing helium
>> from a balloon to make a funny voice. Sound travels faster in
>> helium, changing the natural resonances of the vocal tract.
I think I posted this before but here it is again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bunF0-ObdpQ
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-01-18 12:00
"Come to think of it, carbon dioxide has a pretty dramatic effect on the speed of sound. So I'm wondering: do wind players keep away from fizzy drinks before a performance?"
Yes they should! Especially oboe players as CO2 is dense the pitch will drop considerably if you burp while playing. On flutes, clarinet and saxes this dense air will be expelled quickly but on oboes with their high breath resistance, the dense air will last for a lot longer in the player's breath (until they exhale and inhale again) and the pitch will remain flatter for much longer - so don't down a can of Coke quickly before doing a solo.
As for cold versus warm instruments, cold air is more dense than warm air therefore cold instruments will play flat compared to warm instruments.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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