 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: fruitbat
Date: 2010-01-11 11:36
First I want to say hallo to anybody in the bbord. I'm Stephan from Germany.
My question: I was offered a nickle plated 1958 Selmer Series 9 alto clarinet to low Eb. The clarinet looks like new. Wood, pads and mechanics are in perfect condition. It comes with original case in more or less good condition.
The intonation ist very good (except low Eb, E and F, they are bit flat). The response is very good too. I think I really like this horn.
The price is rather shocking: 3330 USD or 2300 Eur. Is it worth to pay so much for this alto?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2010-01-11 14:41
Hi and welcome, Stephan, I found, bought, played and sold a fine Selmer A C, an excellent inst. We have discussed A C's often on our BBoard, so I suggest making a Search [above] for our collection of thots and experience. The prices you mentioned seem quite high to me, but I always felt I made a good buy and somewhat passed it along to my replacement in our Tulsa Community Band, where it did have a welcome place . Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-01-11 15:14
If you like it and can justify paying 2300 Euros, then go for it - though do see if you can get the seller to drop the price.
Considering how much a new Selmer alto is (which is astronomical) and that the Series 9 is probably a much nicer instrument, then if it's in excellent condition and plays pretty much how you like, then you should have a good alto that will last a lifetime.
I've just looked up the prices of new pro level altos and nearly fainted - the Buffet Prestige alto is more expensive than their RC Prestige basset horn!
Only Buffet, Selmer and Yamaha are the big companies that offer pro level altos from what I can see - looks like Leblanc have packed it in.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: fruitbat
Date: 2010-01-11 19:00
Well it´s quite expensive, I know. Compared to the price of other used altos it´s far too much.
Compared to a new alto it´s rather cheap. But I would never buy a new alto. I would prefer a basset horn if I could to spend so much money.
I think I should check the market for other horns too. Until now I only tested a Buffet that made some troubles in response, a Selmer Bundy that was terrible and this beautiful Selmer Series 9. Probably I can get a Conn Paris from about 1960-70 for less than 1000 USD. I should check this first I guess.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2010-01-11 19:20
"Conn Paris"? This would be a Malerne product, single-register-vent system most likely, and probably not a great player (certainly not in the same league as a Selmer-Paris). Malerne alto and bass clarinets also suffer from very soft keywork, easily bent. Malerne-made alto and bass clarinets (which were marketed under well over a dozen brand names) are available quite cheaply on That Infernal Internet Auction Site Whose Name Shall Not Be Mentioned (TIIASWNSNBM) -- for far less than $1000 US. Even in fully-restored, like-new condition $1000 is too much money.
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Author: fruitbat
Date: 2010-01-11 20:29
Thanks for this advice! I did not know that Malerne built those clarinets. But I heard of the rather bad quality of malerne intstruments.
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Author: Keith Ferguson
Date: 2010-01-11 22:13
Hello Stephan,
The market in Europe for used alto clarinets may be very different from what I've seen in North America, but last year I spent five months looking for a professional quality alto clarinet, and 95% of what I found was junk. I ended up choosing the best one I could find (a 40 year-old Leblanc) and had to have it overhauled with some significant adjustments to the keywork (two separate visits to a technician).
By the time I was done, I had spent nearly 2/3 of the amount being asked for the Series 9 you described, and I doubt my alto plays as well. So, by all means check the market, but factor in the costs of an overhaul as well.
Keith
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-01-12 10:12
Howarth's prices for new pro level alto clarinets are (in ascending order):
Yamaha YCL-631 - £4250
Buffet Prestige - £4850
Selmer - £7425
I think the Yamaha is the only alto clarinet from a major manufacturer with the fully automatic double speaker mechanism as found on pro bass clarinets in that it switches vents when raising/lowering RH3 fingerplate with the speaker key held down - most altos have the throat Bb and speaker vent either linked to the throat A key or thumb plate but with no linkage from the RH3 fingerplate.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: fruitbat
Date: 2010-01-12 10:24
It seems to me that here in Europe is nearly no market for alto clarinets at all. Therefore prices are high. GB may be an exception because of many wood ensembles. Germany is even worse than rest of Europe because we play german system clarinets. There is no german system alto clarinet available on the market but very beautiful basset horns. However I play boehm clarinets.
I checked all german dealers with reputation. I found one Leblanc for 3600 USD, one Selmer series 9 silver plated for 5050 USD, Selmers other series from 3150-3500 USD, Noblet, Conn, Kohlert from 2800-3400 USD and the Selmer series 9 I mentioned first for 3300 USD. No cheap and good instrument available.
German clarinet specialists say that a good Selmer series 9 should cost 1500-2200 USD. Instruments that are as good as new can cost max. 2800 USD. The altos are in reallity more expensive because they are very excotic in Germany. After some bargaining I can get the Selmer Series 9 for 3150 USD.
The strange thing is that for little more money I can get a used Buffet Prestige basset horn. Does somebody know this clarinet? Does it sound better than the Selmer alto? Bore is the same, mouthpice too. What should be different than extension to low C? I'm really not sure if I should buy such an exotic alto clarinet for so much money or better take a basset horn?
@ David: The Selmer Series 9 has a single-register-vent system as well. Anyway response ist very good.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-01-12 10:34
I have a Buffet Prestige basset horn and it's a fantastic instrument - it has a narrower bore than an alto clarinet (around 17mm) but takes an alto clarinet mouthpiece and you can use alto sax reeds on them (and you'll have far more choice of alto sax reeds than if you were to get alto clarinet reeds). The keywork layout on the Buffet basset horn is pretty much identical to their current Prestige basses, so changing betwen them isn't a problem as you'll know exactly which keys do what when playing down to low C.
Basset horns are more popular in Europe than altos and you'll have to transpose down a tone when reading Eb alto parts (or transpose and write everything out if that makes life easier). You'll have the full range as an alto but also an extra semitone at the bottom (down to concert F on a basset horn - altos go to concert F#) and an extra tone up top in the basic range (which is four complete 8ves) on a basset horn.
Leblanc basset horns have an alto clarinet bore (18mm) and use an alto mouthpiece, and the Selmer basset horn has a narrow bore of around 16mm and uses a Bb clarinet mouthpiece.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: fruitbat
Date: 2010-01-12 12:11
Chris, you said the Buffet Prestige basset horn has a bore of 17mm. That´s excactly the same as the Selmer s9. Guess that´s the reason why the Selmer sounds nicer than other alto clarinets. Actually it should sound like your basset horn?
The extended range is a good argument to choose rather the basset horn. But much more important is the sound and the response. I play an Reform Boehm bass clarinet with a bore of 17mm. The response of this instrument is not really good. It is hard to play it (long clarinet with small bore...). The basset horn is quite long too. How about its response an blow resistance?
I tested the Selmer with alto sax reeds and german bcl reeds. Works very well.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2010-01-12 21:59
I find the Buffet basset horn very free blowing and easy to get on with - very predictable in its tuning and response. The first time I played it in public (in Mozart's Requiem) wasn't a problem at all, though I did have to get used to the speaker key as it has a curved underside to fit around the top side of the LH thumb plate and I kept catching one of the sharp edges with my thumb - I'll probably reshape it to a teardrop shape.
I've got an old Selmer basset horn (with ring keys) and that has the narrow 16mm (or maybe less) bore but still has a lot of depth to the sound. I tried a brand new Selmer basset horn back in 1988 and that had the same tuning problems as my old one - mainly the basset notes which are a bit hit and miss.
As Selmer only make basset horns to order (and they cost almost double that of a Buffet), they haven't really developed them a lot since the '60s or '70s - they do have plateau keywork and thumb keys for the low D and C (my old one has neither, but I'll get round to adding the perforated plate for LH1, thumb keys for low D and C and a LH low D key one day), but they're still pretty much like the older Selmers which were copied from the very old Buffet design. But this old Selmer of mine definitely outplays Uebel basset horns.
I worked on a Selmer Series 9 alto not so long ago, and the tone wasn't as fat or spread as a Noblet or Leblanc alto can be - definitely more like a basset horn.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2010-01-13 04:42
>> Considering how much a new Selmer alto is (which is astronomical)
>> and that the Series 9 is probably a much nicer instrument
Why is a Series 9 probably much nicer? I've tried a few Selmer altos, both new and old, and my favorite was a new one I tried a few years ago. I recently tried a Yamaha alto hoping it would be as good as their soprano clarinets, but it was disapointing.
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Author: fruitbat
Date: 2010-01-13 07:20
Thank you Chris (and anybody else) for the very helpful information! I decided not to buy the Selmer alto. Probably it´s not very wise to spend so much money for an quite excotic clarinet (at least in Germany). I mean it´s a really nice horn but compared to basset horn sound (I only know german system sound) it´s less like Bb clarinet. Not so fokussed, hope you know what I mean.
I will definatly try the Buffet Prestige basset horn. A new one is 5500 Eur, a secound-hand instrument about 2/3 of this price.
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