 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-01-05 00:25
I finally did it but I'm not sure why the Youtube picture and title came out like it did, I corrected it and saved it but nothing changed. Maybe it takes time to change or someone will tell me what I did wrong, but it works. Go to the following link below or check out my website.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtEZ8SUxPz4
This is to help you understand how to use a reed knife to adjust a finished or commercial reed, not to make a reed from a blank. That takes many other steps and considerations.
First you need to have a knife that is either for a lefty or righty or what they call a razor knife or V shaped. This is because you want one side to be flat or thin as in razor so when you use it you can easily see the spot the blade is making contact with the reed without having to “lean” over the knife. The other thing you need to remember is to keep the blade sharp because you are only going to scrape gently and you don’t want to slice. Gentle is the secret word here. The reason I like to use a reed knife is because I can see exactly the spot I begin scraping and stop. I can scrape as little or as much as I determine is necessary. With sand paper, rush or the IPG system you can’t do that because there’s too much surface making contact with the reed all though the use of either one of those is still works to make adjustments. It’s not that I think any of them are a problem, I just feel that once you get the knack of using a knife you have a little more control over what you’re doing. You can learn to adjust a reed using any or all of the above mentioned.
The first thing you need to do when using a reed knife is to support the vamp of the reed under the portion you’re making the knife adjustment. I learned to use a finger to support the reed but many people prefer a small piece of glass to place the reed on to support the entire reed. Each to their own. The main technique involved is to “roll” the blade across the portion you’re scraping. That is not to move your hand holding the knife up and down but instead to have the back of the knife pressed gently against the thumb of the hand that’s holding the reed. Then move the thumb up or down on the vamp depending on where you’re going to make the scrape. When you want to make a gentle scrape you simply place the blade over the portion you’re scraping and in a gentle rolling motion scrape off what you want. ESP
http://eddiesclarinet.com
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2010-01-10 03:40)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-01-05 00:37
I once knew an excellent player who used a knife on the reed while it was still mounted on the mouthpiece. It eliminated the time needed to take the reed off and put it back on, so he could work faster.
I can't tell from the angle you show the "razor" knife - is it the same as the "hollow-ground" ones I bought from Herder's years ago, or is it actually straighter on both sides?
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-01-05 00:49
Karl, the "razor" knife is sort of like a large razor blade, straight on both sides, no bevel. ESP
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Author: kdk
Date: 2010-01-05 01:22
Ed, I use a knife sometimes, almost always if I'm trying to adjust a reed at a rehearsal or concert site - rush (which I'm honestly more comfortable with) sometimes doesn't travel well (crumbles), it needs to be wet and the reed needs to be supported by something flat like glass or a marble block, which takes too much space in my instrument case, although it's fine at home in my practice studio. I get good results with the knife, but I never feel as though I can get pinpointed enough on a specific area when I'm working at the tip. Anywhere below the tip, there's enough curve in the reed to allow the straight knife edge to hit a spot accurately. When I'm working at the tip, the reed is, for all intents, flat, and I have trouble being precise and not taking material from across the entire tip when I may only need to scrape a small portion of it. Do you have any specific knife technique for the tip area?
Karl
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Author: salzo
Date: 2010-01-05 02:13
"I get good results with the knife, but I never feel as though I can get pinpointed enough on a specific area when I'm working at the tip. Anywhere below the tip, there's enough curve in the reed to allow the straight knife edge to hit a spot accurately. When I'm working at the tip, the reed is, for all intents, flat, and I have trouble being precise and not taking material from across the entire tip when I may only need to scrape a small portion of it. Do you have any specific knife technique for the tip area?"
I never had good results with rush, always preferred a knife, but I too found the knife cumbersome for pinpoint accuracy at the tip. i have read and heard many say that "many use rush for delicate tip work", but I always dound it worse at the tip than a knife.
I have been using a tool that I made for the past three years, and for me it is very effective. Actually I made two different types, the first one I have not used since coming up with the second.
The first tool is used similar to a chisel. Has a 3mm tip, which while placing reed on glass, gently scrape away the areas on the tip holding the tool with two fingers and a thumb. This worked very well, but I prefer the newer tool that allows me to hold the reed in my hand while working. Basically, it an "L" shaped piece of steel that I cut from jointer knives. Has a 3mm tip on the small line of the L, rest the smaller part of the L in front of my thumb, the longer part of the L is between the first two fingers and thumb. Basically, it is a 3mm reed knife, that is held with the finger tips. The tool is about an inch and a half long. It works very well for me, and many of my students use it with good results.
It can also be used on the rest of the reed, but I prefer using it only on the tip, unless I am making small adjustments.
Post Edited (2010-01-05 02:16)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-01-05 02:39
Karl, I use the technique as illustrated in my video, I'm sorry if it wasn't clear enough to see clearly, I tried. With my forefinger securing the tip I gently stroke the blade over the portion of the tip to make an adjustment. I don't use a different technique for the tip then I do for any other portion of the reed. I think the secret may be to follow the stroke through lifting the blade as you continue so as not to have a stop mark in the reed. If you notice the way I stroke, the blade goes in an upper direction as it leaves the reed. The blade always goes from touching the reed to lifting in an upward motion. I think it's a matter of practice. I hope this helps. ESP
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2010-01-05 05:11
Ed. Thank you very, very much for demonstrating. I never knew which technique to use and I always get crappy results from my reed knife, now I think I'll practice with your technique because it is so easy to use. The tapering process was fantastic, that will clear up a lot of things for everyone clipping their reeds. Thanks a bunch Ed, you should do some more videos too! I enjoyed that
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Author: William
Date: 2010-01-05 15:01
When I was using a reed knife (before Forestones), I always supported the reed with my forefinger while scraping as EP suggested. Always thought that I had more control over the pressure of the blade that way. Using a piece of glass never felt comfortable, even when scraping on the tip. As for leaving the reed on the mpc during knife adjustments, I did that when shaving the bark from the base of the cut and for certain scrapings of the thicker parts of the shoulders. However, I usually found that the ligature kind of got in the way and most often removed the reed altogether.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2010-01-05 20:14
I have used cabinet scrapers for reed adjusting, the small sort used by violin makers. These are available in different shapes, thichnesses and sizes and can easily be reground to whatever shape you like.
They are also relatively cheap.
When properly sharpened with a very small burr applied it is possible to remove microscopic amounts of material without too much risk.
Anyone else tried these?
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-01-05 20:33
One reason I don't think it's a good idea to scrape near the tip of the reed while it's on the mouthpiece is because there's no support under the reed and the pressure will be unequal against the reed because it will be pushed into the facing of the MP.
The reason for using a reed knife instead of a regular knife is that you want it to be reasonable balanced in weight so it's not heavier at the blade than the handle. You don't want the weight of the blade to influence the scraping. You want to have complete control over how much or how little pressure you place on the reed especially when working near the tip. ESP
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Author: crampy
Date: 2010-01-05 22:10
Thank you very much, Ed. It is a wonderful thing when an expert demonstrates and shares their skill for others to learn
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2010-01-06 02:25
Nice video, Ed!
The woodworker in me says to use the glass and avoid the risk of whacking a finger.
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Author: TianL
Date: 2010-01-06 04:08
Thanks Ed!!!
I have another kind of irrelevant question: let's say you have a reed, and you've adjusted it to play well. Then after playing it for some time, it doesn't play as well, so you may re-adjust it, right? But my question is, until what point do you give up adjusting it and throw it away?
I have some reeds that don't play quite well anymore, but I don't know if it's my reed-adjusting technique is not good enough, or it is just the time to throw them away.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-01-06 13:41
TianL, that's difficult to answer because every reed loses it's life at some point. Most of the time mine will get a bit too soft and that's when I will taper it and clip it slightly. If it was a good reed to begin with it usually works well but not forever. Sometimes I may have to slightly balance it again but usually very little. You can only do so much to a reed once it begins to wear out so I can't tell you if it's you or the reed. Just keep experimenting but if you can't make it play better in less than a minute it's not worth trying. ESP
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2010-01-08 16:27
Ed:
How sharp should the reed knife be? I purchased a folding knife a while back but it seems to be dull. I didn't know if that was intentional or not.
THanks,
Matt
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2010-01-08 18:08
Thanks Ed. I recently purchased a reed knife and thought I got one for a lefty. Turns out, I was going in the wrong direction because I had previously used the ATG system - which actually is the opposite of how you use a reed knife.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-01-08 19:08
Matt, I agree with David, the knife should be as sharp as possible so you don't tear the cane but scrape it. You need to get a sharping stone and keep it sharp. ESP
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2010-01-09 23:09
Ed/Dave:
Thanks for the thoughts. I will work on sharpening the blade.
An recommendations on that? Which stone do you use? How do you determine sharpness? etc....
Thanks again,
Matt
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-01-10 03:45
Matt, you can go to any hardware store, Home Deposit, Lowes etc. and ask for a good sharpening stone. It doesn't have to be any elaborate or expensive. It is best to have one with two different roughnesses, one regular and one fine for finishing the sharpening. You can ask someone in the store to show you how to sharpen a knife if you don't know. You can tell how sharp it is by gently touching the tip or slicing a piece of paper. ESP
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Author: salzo
Date: 2010-01-10 11:48
It has been awhile since I have purchased a reed knife, but I seem to remember buying a folder which had no burr at all- left dull so that the user could put the edge on the knife.
If that is the case, and you do not have experience sharpening, you might want to get it done by someone who knows what they are doing. Get a single edge, they are the easiest to resharpen
When starting a blade "from scratch" - I start with a medium arkansas stone, move to a hard,, and then a surgical stone. When I am dealing with a knife that is already prepared, but needs sharpening, I hit the surgical stone a few times. If the knife has a well placed edge, a few hits with a surgical stone a few times each reed session is all you need.
IMHO, I would avoid the typical sharpening stone you find in a hardware store- they can be pretty bad quality. I have used them , and have better results with other sharpening systems. A nice arkansas stone, or a set of DMTS are preferred.
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Author: Tim P
Date: 2010-01-12 12:13
thank you Ed. that was informative and much appreciated.
"saving the world, one beer at a time"
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