 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Mel Lazin
Date: 2010-01-07 18:58
I'm playing alto sax, doubling on tenor sax in a professional big band for about a year, but my training is on the clarinet. I am finally achieving my dream of playing the Goodman and Shaw charts with a big band.
I'm no kid, as I have been playing clarinet for fifty years.
My set up is a 1962 R-13 that I bought new back then, and a Rovner ligiture and a Morgan RM-06 which I bought from Ralph in the early eighties. I use a VanDoran 3 Reed. I love this set up for playing classical and playing at home. The setup plays freely and in tune.
Problem: The band can't hear me. I can barely hear myself. Even when I play into a microphone, I can't hear the amplified sound.
So, I thought I should get a more open mouthpiece. That has not improved the sound amplification significantly.
Perhaps the band should play softer. Perhaps I need what is known as a monitor to hear myself and need a better amplification setup.
If this keeps up, they may decide that the clarinet pieces don't work, but the crowd enjoys them so much.
Any suggestions?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2010-01-07 19:08
The band is playing to loud and or your amplification setup sucks. You could try a mic that fits onto the bell or barrel of your clarinet, I've seen them but don't know anything about them, or have better mic and speaker system that you're presently using. I think using a monitor is a great idea too so you can hear your self in relation to the band. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2010-01-07 22:16
Mel, you and I have a lot in common, age and ensemblewise. I suggest you insist that your band play softer during your solo's--most jazz ensembles play too loud most of the time anyhow. Remind them, especially the trumpets, that "less is more" and that quality comes before quantity. If the rest of the band can't hear you, they are playing TOO LOUD. Also, I always place my clarinet bell straight onto the mike, only backing off a bit when playing the longer notes--B4, etc. If you have a sound person, he/she should be turning the soloist mike up more for your clarinet leads. Those Goodman charts must be fun and they should be heard without you having to blow your lungs out.
I'm too young to have heard the great big bands--Goodman, Dorsey(s), Shaw, etc--live, but I've always been told that during dances they really didn't play that loud. The emphasis was more on balance and blend of the different sections. Too bad that volumn control has been mostly lost by modern big bands.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2010-01-07 23:37
The more you need to get up close to the mike, the better a narrow-pattern mike like an SM-57 will work. If you have enough room and won't pick up the rest of the band, a wide pattern mike such as an SM-58 may work better. (These are examples, not specific endorsements.)
I heard Buddy DeFranco play with a big band some years ago. He used what the sound guy called "a funky old lavalier mike" clipped to his lapel. It picked up everything except the long notes, but he had plenty of space away from the rest of the band. There are some clip mikes that you can hook to your bell which will work in tighter quarters.
Ask the sound person 1) Can the audience hear you? and 2) How's the balance (you vs. rest of the band)?
A monitor can help fix most of your problem. The sound person should know where to put it so a) you can hear it and b) feedback is avoided.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Merlin_Williams
Date: 2010-01-08 01:00
As others have mentioned, it's likely the band is too loud. It's a distressingly common problem with large jazz ensembles.
My band only uses a very small amount of micing. We'll sometimes use a mic on the piano; solos only rarely (subtone clarinet and muted trumpets) and our bassist is lightly amplified. Guitarist goes totally acoustic with an old D'Angelico archtop.
We strive for an acoustically balanced sound; mic'ing is to compensate for room sound problems in the venues.
Jupiter Canada Artist/Clinician
Stratford Shakespeare Festival musician
Woodwind Doubling Channel Creator on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/WoodwindDoubling
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: super20dan
Date: 2010-01-08 23:49
i solved this prob by using a hard rubber clarinet (also a metal one) -deg barrell-rico metalite mpc and a plasticover reed. i dont even need a mic anymore. getting the band to play softer is futile. if you want to use your existing setup get a clip-on mic and use a monitor
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mel Lazin
Date: 2010-01-12 23:56
Thanks to everyone. Apparently my problem is quite common.
I had a long talk with the big band last night. We were wondering why we had problems with dynamics. We play too loud and dynamics are impossible if your baseline is "loud". It went over quite well when I explained that jazz was a conversation among musicians, requiring not only talking, but also listening.
We could feel the difference immediately. This will require continuous monitoring for the next several months. Meanwhile we are exploring better amplification systems for those situations which require it.
Music is such a learning experience. After 50 years of playing there is still so much to learn. But it is a joy.
It is really great to hear such well balanced advice from understanding professionals who share that joy.
Mel Lazin
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2010-01-13 00:16
Band is flat out too loud. Wait till you play 'Begin the Beguine' or 'Sing, Sing, Sing'. Many bands feel loud is the only way to play. Makes me question the "professional" characterization of the band. Good luck.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
Post Edited (2010-01-13 00:17)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Philcoman
Date: 2010-01-13 20:47
Mel--congrats on getting my dream gig, and congrats on talking your band into playing down a little bit. Listen to those old Goodman sides -- the band almost always takes it down for the clarinet solos -- they couldn't always use amplification back then to back it up!
"If you want to do something, you do it, and handle the obstacles as they come." --Benny Goodman
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bassie
Date: 2010-01-14 07:15
I was always told that the secret to Big Band is a hundred musicians playing *very quietly*
Mikeing the bell can sound very coarse but it is the loudest point.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-01-14 12:49
Mel Lazin wrote,
>It went over quite well when I explained that jazz was a conversation among musicians, requiring not only talking, but also listening.>
What an excellent description. Sounds as if you're not only a fine musician but also a skilled diplomat!
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: haberc
Date: 2010-01-14 23:58
Otto Link Tone Edge Slant Signature mouthpiece and a good mike. They'll hear you and you'll have a lot more fun!
haberc@earthlink.net
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
