 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-11-30 20:27
I remember reading in the K. archives Alvin Swiney writing that Buffet "Master Models" were wide-bore Buffet professional clarinets in the 48xxx serial number range that were rejected and sold (as intermediate clarinets). I read too much!
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Author: mw
Date: 2000-11-30 21:10
There is an Evette & Schaeffer Master Model on eBay auction right now. I have seen the Evette Master Models and Evette & Schaeffer models, but I have never seen an E & S which was marked also engraved with "Master Model". For that matter I have heard of an Evette Master Model which was supposedly engrvaed with "E-13". (the latter is heresay, and may have been a deliberate attempt to mislead for gain, while the E & S master Model does actually exist).
Interesting horns. The wood I have seen on these clarinets appears to be consistently of a good quality & (those which I have inspected) have aged well.
The Buffet "Master Model" lore is very interesting. The Klarinet Archives have a fair number of conversations which relate to this model.
mw
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-11-30 21:50
The E&S Master Model lore is that they are Buffet R-13s that were rejected for minor cosmetic flaws. They are a very good value, and I have never seen a bad comment about one.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Anji
Date: 2000-11-30 22:23
There are good ones and average ones.
I recommend looking for the 24xxx-36xx range, the nice players I've tried are all from that era (1972-1975). The 48xxx is from 1979, according to B&H
(http://www.boosey.com/Instruments/Service/FrameSerialnumbers.htm).
Mine is the same bore as the R-13, policylindrical with undercutting.
I just sold an old one (D5xxx) from 1953 that was nowhere near the player of my main horn. It lacked the features mentioned above.
These should not cost more than $200, unless the pads and regulation were JUST done (insist on seeing the repair order).
I've auditioned other horns (including a nice Buffet Festival that I really dug) and will stay with the MM. My teacher has concurred. With what I have saved (I'm in for around $500) I have invested in mpcs and a nice old Buffet in A.
If you have money to play with, it can be entertaining. If you don't it can be "Like a box of Chocolates... you never know whatcher gonna get." - FG
happy hunting!
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Author: J. Butler
Date: 2000-12-01 00:59
Mark,
I'm not sure I'm following your explaination correctly in the above post but the Master Model I currently have to repair for resale has an "Evette and Schaeffer" on the inside of the trademark oval with the "Paris" in the center and the "France" on the bottom inside of the trademark oval. On the outside of the trademark oval along the bottom is stamped "Modele Buffet Crampon". Beneath that in a straight line is "Made in France" and them below that in a straight line is "Master- Model". That may not make sense since I'm very much a visual learner myself and a "picture is worth"...well we all know that one. The serial number of this one is K52XX.
John
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2000-12-01 14:25
Dear Bill,
In my gallery of seldom used clarinets I too have an E&S Master Model clarinet with the K series serial number. From what I have been able to find out it is in the late 50's to early 60's vintage. Whether it is an R-13 clone or not I would not be quoted but it is a fine instrument with silver keys and resembles in every detail an R-13 of that vintage. Your description of the insignia and master model lettering is exactly like mine. I do not think that the master model designation was added later because it shows the very same wear pattern as the E & S insignia. It is a quality instrument. Good luck.
The Doctor
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-12-01 14:06
The comment I was quoting from the Klarinet Archives asserts that Buffet professional model clarinets of a certain serial number range from the late 1940s/early 1950s were sold off as "Master Model" clarinets when the newly designed Buffet professional clarients (those having the polycylindrical bore) appeared.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2000-12-01 14:45
Sorry Bill, the post should have been referred to John Butler since I did not answer your question.
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Author: mw
Date: 2000-12-01 15:44
Yes, I think we are & were all in agreement.
NOW, has anyone seen anything with the "Evette" or "E & S" that also has a *ENGRAVED* model number of "E-13" ???
Thanks.
mw
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Author: J. Butler
Date: 2000-12-01 16:44
Mark,
As far as I know the E-13 and I believe previous E-45 (?) designated horns only have the "Model Buffet Crampon" under the E&S trademark, at any rate that is all I've ever seen.
John
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-12-01 19:13
By the way, there's another sleeper you may run across, equivalent to the E&S Master Model. It's the Olds "Opera" model from the 50s and 60s, which is a Buffet R-13 stencil. The lower Olds models are junk, but the Opera is superb, and if you find one it will probably go for a low price, given the bad Olds reputation and lack of a Buffet logo.
How to tell a Buffet stencil: The "sliver" key for the right hand ring finger has 3 parts: a central tube, the "sliver" and the pad cup. Both the sliver and the pad cup have a curved "swoosh" shape, soldered along the length of the central tube.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Dave Spiegelthal
Date: 2000-12-01 20:13
Speaking of sleepers/Buffet stencils, I have a Linton wood clarinet, s/n 4W1BXXX which, according to some older posts on the Klarinet Archives, was made by Buffet. I called Jack Linton's company and the nice lady there confirmed that it was made in the '60's and was a professional model, but that was all she knew as apparently they haven't keep records from that long ago. I compared the Linton visually to an R-13 I borrowed for a day, and they're appeared pretty close to identical from a keywork standpoint. I don't have good tools to measure the bores, unfortunately. The Linton (post-overhaul) does play quite well and, to my ear (admittedly de-sensitized by years of bass clarinet and sax playing) sounds rather like a Buffet. So, a wood Linton clarinet may be another low-cost alternative for the Buffet-lovers on a budget.
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Author: T.Coleman
Date: 2000-12-01 22:38
Thanks to Mark, we got confirmation from Buffet early this year that the Master Model Clarinet is in fact an R-13 with only cosmetic flaws. Here is his post of
Dec. 23, 1999
Topic: RE: Please help a clarinet "greenhorn"!
Name: Mark Charette ()
Date: 12-23-99 10:32
From Francois:
---------------
Dear Mark,
The master model was made by the same persons who made the R13 and yes they are R13 with little cosmetic flaws but nothing is wrong accousticly.
Musically Yours
Merry Christmas
Francois Kloc
Manager of Woodwinds North America
Boosey & Hawkes Musical Instruments Inc.
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Author: Pat Parkin
Date: 2000-12-03 23:07
Here is my experience with the Master Model Issue:
1) E & S Master Model #K6737: No undercutting, polycylindrical upper joint, old-style keywork.
2) E & S Master Model #K8561: No undercutting, polycylindrical upper joint, new style keywork.
3) E & S Master Model #K8672: No undercutting, polycylindrical upper joint, new style keywork.
4) Evette Master Model #D21586: Undercut holes, polycylindrical upper joint, new style key work.
5) Evette Master Model #D25763: Undercut holes, polycylindrical upper joint, new style keywork.
6) Evette Master Model #D29539: Undercut holes, polycylindrical upper joint, new style keywork.
7) West German Evette Master Model #D46950, Undercut hole, polycylindrical upper joint, keywork similar to early International models, with right and left hand keywork not pinned together, but just overlapping. "Ears" on lower joint bridge vs. upper.
8)Evette #D7924: Undercut holes, cylindrical upper joint, new style keywork.
9)Evetter #D16192: Undercut holes, polycylindrical upper joint, new style keywork.
10) Evette #D12762: Undercut holes, cylindrical upper joint, new style keywork.
11) Evette #D14633: Undercut holes, cylindrical upper joint, new style keywork.
By "old style keywork" I mean 1) lower bridge piece makes right angle rather than an "S" curve, 2) three lowest trill keys at right angle vs. slightly less than right angle and 3) "robust" rings vs thinner rings, as well as other differences.
Number 2) above is not yet re-assembled, but of the others two or three local clarinet teachers played most of the others, and the general consensus was that the Evette Master Models played and sounded the best. Regarding vintage, I saw an ad or post that stated E&S #D8222 was purchased new in 1958.
Pat Parkin
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Author: mw
Date: 2000-12-04 16:40
Pat, thanks for the info. Have you run across any B serial numbers? If I recall it was on an E & S.
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Author: Pat Parkin
Date: 2000-12-05 03:43
I've not played a B serial number E&S, just looked at a couple in pawn shops. They didn't look as nice as some of the well-kept K number horns, but that probably doesn't mean a thing. I recall that Peter Spriggs had a B serial number Evette & Schaeffer in his shop back in the spring of this year when I was there. His input would be much more valuable than mine.
I just noticed in my earlier post I referred to an E&S serial number D8222. That should have been K8222.
Pat Parkin
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Author: C. Hogue
Date: 2000-12-05 15:24
Pat --
Thanks for all your good information! I found especially helpful your description between the old-style keywork and new. But how can you tell if the upper joint is polycylindrical?
Thanks.
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Author: Pat Parkin
Date: 2000-12-10 03:24
Sorry for the delay getting back. The only way to know is to measure it. There are special gauges for this that are used with a micrometer. For measuring a single clarinet you can do it pretty accurately using home-made gauges made out of metal rod and a micrometer. Cylindrical bores are, of course the same diameter (approximately) along the length. Polycylindrical bore have two (or more) areas of different diameters joined by a tapered area. Some times a straight bore will look like it has a slight step in it. This is probably cause by boring it out from both ends. I have a West German made Evette that is like this.
Pat Parkin
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Author: Wes Brown
Date: 2000-12-17 16:12
Hi!
An E&S Master Model clarinet I bought and sold was a lot improved after I went through it and undercut most of the tone holes. This brought up the lower register a little in pitch but didn't affect the upper register. It also improved the "resonance" of the lower register. Without the undercutting, it was not a great clarinet and was much better after the work was done. Physically, it seemed to look like an R-13, except for the logo and the lack of undercutting.
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Author: susieray
Date: 2008-02-20 17:32
I realize I am reviving an old thread here, but in response to Bill's
original post, there are indeed rejected pro Buffets in the 48xxx-49xxx range with "Evette & Schaeffer Master Model" engraved on them.
These are circa 1955 professional Buffets and DO NOT have the K-prefix. The wood is cut away under the right hand pinkie keys and
MADE IN FRANCE is stamped below the logo on the upper joint, just
as it is on the pro horns.
(Not to be confused with the 39000-41000 "bad bore" Academy Models which were made a little earlier in the 1950's and were also rejected pro Buffets).
I currently own Buffet #495xx which has the E&S Master Model name. I believe Vytas also has one like it with a very similar serial number.
My apologies if this has been discussed already, but I read through this entire thread and not one person addressed Bill's question, as he was asking about horns without the K prefix.
Post Edited (2008-02-20 17:33)
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2008-02-21 14:58
Kloc should and does know, and confirms what Lee Gibson wrote in The Clarinet about 25 years ago, namely, the E&S Master is an R13, except for slight difference in one tone hole.
richard smith
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2008-02-21 16:44
richard smith wrote:
>"Kloc should and does know, and confirms what Lee Gibson wrote in The Clarinet about 25 years ago, namely, the E&S Master is an R13, except for slight difference in one tone hole".<
That's BULL! The regular K-series Evette & Schaeffer Master Model is NOT an R13. Some of "Evette & Schaeffer Master Models" have not been even made by Buffet.
Rejected R13s with "Evette & Schaeffer Master Model" stamp Mr. Kloc is talking about are very rare clarinets and have nothing to do with the regular K-series (or D-series made by Malerne ) "Evette & Schaeffer Master Model" clarinets.
Vytas Krass
Clarinet Repair
Professional clarinet technician
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: Avie
Date: 2008-02-21 21:13
Rtmyth, Im not clear on the master model saga except that it will continue on. I am curious as to which tone hole you were refering to, and if it was designed that way for a specific purpose.
All R13's are not created equal and why is it the guide stick for every Buffet model out there. Buffet's have a good reputation gained over a long stretch of time in France and the U.S.![[hot]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/hot.gif)
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