 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: classic10
Date: 2009-12-28 07:07
Hi,
I've acquired an old Albert clarinet (I'm guessing around 110 years old) and it has very peculiar tone holes. They all follow the curvature of the clarinet (even the countersunk ones.) So, the regular double bladder pads let air scape on both sides.
This seems to be a really nice clarinet and I'm inclined to make an extra effort to make it playable.
I would appreciate any suggestions on types of pads or techniques to seal the tone holes correctly.
Thanks!!
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Added photos http://www.creativitypod.com/clarinet/
The top tone hole on the second picture is the one that exemplifies best how curved the tone holes are.
Post Edited (2009-12-28 08:11)
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Author: classic10
Date: 2009-12-28 08:04
Sure, here are three photos. http://www.creativitypod.com/clarinet/
The top tone hole on the second picture is the one that exemplifies best how curved the tone holes are.
Post Edited (2009-12-28 08:07)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-12-28 11:38
ChrisP will have the best answer, but I have a couple of ideas.
If the instrument has "saltspoon" pad cups, the pads will be soft enough to conform. Similarly, soft standard pads should work, as should standard ones if you bend them into a curve that matches the wood and seat them in plenty of shellac.
Every experienced repair technician knows how to seal the grain of the wood and fill in chips in the rims, usually using epoxy mixed with grenadilla dust. The same technique can be used to remake the rims so they are flat.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-12-28 14:57
I restored an old simple system clarinet a few years ago with toneholes like that --- I found that leather pads, installed with silicone glue (a.k.a. silicone caulk a.k.a. RTV) worked very well at conforming to/sealing over the rounded toneholes.
Another option (at the risk of destroying the historical authenticity of the instrument and/or hurting its acoustical properties) is to level the toneholes with a flat file and using whatever pads you normally use (I can't recommend this approach).
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-12-28 15:11
The pads in this period were much softer than leather pads today. They were often filled with unwoven raw felt or cotton and sewn closed.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-12-28 15:18
Might need to take modern leather pads and partially disassemble them (maybe peel the cup-side edge of the leather skin away from the felt to allow it stretch a bit more than usual), if they're too stiff to conform. I didn't have to do that for the overhaul I did a few years ago, but as they say, 'your mileage may vary'.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-12-28 16:39
Attachment: Toneholes.jpg (32k)
Couesnon and some older Selmer clarinets have a plain (non-countersunk) tonehole for the C#/G# - and a leather pads is usually used on these as it conforms to the curvature of the tonehole (with a bit of manipulation to make it curved).
At least a curved surface will be easier to seat a pad onto than the curved sided countersunk toneholes on Clementi 8-keyed flutes - the pads have to be spherical so they seal (figure b).
The attached diagram shows different types of tonehole bedplaces:
a - as on Baroque woodwinds, a flat is filed on the joint for a solid leather pad to seat onto.
b - countersunk as on Clementi flutes with saltspoon pad cup and spherical stuffed pad.
c - the most popular type of countersunk tonehole with bedlace crown.
d - plain tonehole as on a Couesnon C#/G# where the pad has to conform to the radius of the joint.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-12-28 17:04
Looking at the photos of the old Albert again, I'm fairly confident that standard modern leather pads will work. It might help to clamp shut the key cups that are normally open, while the pad glue sets.
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Author: classic10
Date: 2009-12-28 17:14
Thank you all for the quick and very technical answer!
I thought I had an oddball but it seems that this is a very common setup for the time.
I've removed the bad pads and threw them away, but I remember that they were all leather indeed. But a little puffier than normal.
Any suggestions where to get standard leather pads? I've tried shopforband and musicmedic and they don't have it.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-12-28 17:18
Ferree's Tools. I've been getting my leather pads (and lots of other stuff) there for many years. Excellent quality and impeccable service. Use their #B32 pads (listed as 'bass clarinet' pads).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-12-28 17:21
http://www.creativitypod.com/clarinet/
The toneholes are countersunk on this clarinet as is the norm, but could do with being levelled, so leather pads will be fine.
The chimneys for RH 2 and 3 are integral with the joint, but cut into the joint surface rather than being machined from raised rings on the joint that are later removed to leave just the chimney remaining.
When you order leather pads, measure the inside diameter of the pad cups and that'll be the diameter of the leather pads.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2009-12-28 17:22)
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Author: classic10
Date: 2009-12-28 17:34
Thanks for the great technical information! Now I know not to use double bladder felt pads. :-)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-12-28 18:42
Attachment: Toneholes.b.jpg (37k)
Attached diagram shows how the toneholes look in cross section in both planes.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2009-12-28 18:43)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-12-28 23:38
Not as such - it's all on here!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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