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 Walking wind instrument
Author: crampy 
Date:   2009-12-18 07:01

Has anyone else got a problem with letting one go when they play?

Following pelvic surgery earlier this year, unfortunately I have developed this occasional problem. Luckily I don't play with anyone else.

Given the increase in abdominal pressure when playing I presume this is not unusual, hence how do others pass it off? Blame it on the brass section/cat?



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 Re: Walking wind instrument
Author: Nessie1 
Date:   2009-12-18 12:49

Not a problem I've had but I do sympathise with what must be a distressing problem. Just in case you haven't thought of these things - Have you talked to your doctor(s) about it? Do you avoid or limit high fibre foods (unless you have been told that these are essential for your treatment or for other conditions)? Do you go to the loo before playing? I guess it might help if you could avoid playing just after eating too.

On the credit side, though, it sounds as though you must be using the right muscles when you play!

Good luck!

Vanessa.

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 Re: Walking wind instrument
Author: Ken Shaw 2017
Date:   2009-12-18 14:23

Actually, you may be using the wrong muscles. The Valsalva Maneuver is a complex coordinated squeeze with a number of muscles, which is used in defecation (and by women in labor). Because it is complex and uses large muscles, it occurs slowly and is difficult to control. As Arnold Jacobs taught, it should be avoided while playing even large instruments (such as the tuba).

For much more, see
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=255648&t=255596
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=15660&t=15574 http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=59103&t=58998
http://dynamicmusician.typepad.com/dmsweblog/2008/05/the-wisdom-of-a.html

Unfortunately, the links in those postings are dead. Horray for the Wayback Machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/19980429012347/http://euph.pair.com/jacobs.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20060720040856/web.missouri.edu/~cceric/mclass/song.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20060716134750/web.missouri.edu/~cceric/mclass/concpt1.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20060716134803/web.missouri.edu/~cceric/mclass/concpt2.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20060720040817/web.missouri.edu/~cceric/mclass/wind1.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20060720040919/web.missouri.edu/~cceric/mclass/wind2.html

Ken Shaw

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 Re: Walking wind instrument
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2009-12-18 17:17

I think Mr. Jacobs stated that one should avoid "the maneuver" itself, but the muscles involved ARE what gives you positive pressure !!!

In fact there was at least one prominent teacher who stated that the best rehearsal you'll ever have is when you 5hit on yourself.




..............Paul Aviles

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 Re: Walking wind instrument
Author: bombus 
Date:   2009-12-18 19:01

I burp a lot/get sweat in the pits when I practice if that's any consolation. :)

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 Re: Walking wind instrument
Author: tictactux 2017
Date:   2009-12-18 20:33

Just don't worry, long as it's in tune...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97ejk5NOrR8

--
Ben

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 Re: Walking wind instrument
Author: crampy 
Date:   2009-12-22 03:24

Thank you for your replies.
Not sure about being in tune, but I like the idea of ad-libbing.
I suppose I was hoping for an "I can laugh about it now, but at the time I wished the ground would swallow me up" story.
I suspect it's just a bit of pelvic floor exercise stuff and so forth, as if I'd had a baby.
Have a safe and happy Christmas and New Year :)

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 Re: Walking wind instrument
Author: BobD 
Date:   2009-12-22 11:44

maybe a mute.......!

Bob Draznik

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 Re: Walking wind instrument
Author: Arnoldstang 
Date:   2009-12-22 18:35

Avoid all this compression and pushing. It is counterproductive. Breathe in and expand. Exhale and de-expand. Nothing more is necessary.

Freelance woodwind performer

Post Edited (2009-12-22 21:14)

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 Re: Walking wind instrument
Author: Paul Aviles 
Date:   2009-12-22 18:46

Dear Arnoldstand,


Then how do you produce a quick, thin stream of air that creates a rich, full sound at ppp that one can hear at the back of the hall?


...............Paul Aviles



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 Re: Walking wind instrument
Author: Arnoldstang 
Date:   2009-12-22 19:58

Air speed and proper embouchure support.

Freelance woodwind performer

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 Re: Walking wind instrument
Author: cigleris 
Date:   2009-12-22 19:59

Good point Paul but, the air IMO shouldn't be" thin". You should always have the same volume of air at all times. Dynamic changes are determined by the speed the air is flowing.

Peter Cigleris

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