 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: salzo
Date: 2009-12-19 02:37
I recently switched clarinets after using the same set for twenty years. On My Bb, I used a Selmer 10g 66 barrel with dimensions similar to a Moennig, and on my A used a moennig 65 A barrel. These barrels worked well on my older horns.
Recently I started playing a set of Buffets from 2002. I notice with this set, and on several newer buffets that I have tried, that the high B and C are not sharp as they were on my older set, but the twelth below (E and F) are quite flat. The throat tones are all in tune without covering any holes, while on my other set, I had to use fingerings to bring the pitch down(I actually prefer this, being that the tone quality is better when I add fingerings. I am unable to add any fingerings on the newer set, because it will be too flat). I am using the same 10g and A barrel that I used on the other set. I also have several other moennig barrels, and I am getting the same results with the throat tones and E and F.
I decided to give the stock barrels a try-the definately brings those flat notes up in pitch, much better in tune. i thought that the moennig barrel was supposed to sharpen those throat tones, especially when playing larger bore mouthpieces.- it did so on my older set, but it is definately making those notes too low on the new set. I do not know if i am sold on the stock barrels. I only have one for each horn, and while the throat tones are higher, there is a bit more resistance, which is causing me to play a little sharp in the second register right hand. Might just have to get used to these barrels, I dont know yet. I play on a Gigliotti P facing (old one), and the Vandoren M13.
I am wondering if anyone who plays or played moennig barrels on older horns, find the buffet stock barrels better for newer horns?
i want to pay the horn for a year before I have any intonation work done, but now I am wondering if the stock barrel is better suited for my set up.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2009-12-19 05:15
I have experimented with many, many, many barrels in the last 3 years with my Buffet Festival made in 2006. I have tried Backun, Moennig, Fobes, and Chadash. None of them were any much better than my stock 66mm barrel that came with the clarinet. I tried them all out with my professors and instructors and one of them was telling me, that Buffet is starting to really get their equipment right on newer models. And, I whole heartedly agree. It could just be that your 2002 clarinets are fine the way they are, cause that's how my Bb Festival is.  hope that helps.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-12-19 15:43
Disclaimer: I make and sell barrels
What you discovered is that the bore dimensions of the clarinets differ between older and newer models. This means that the barrels should be differnt to work well with them. Likewise, original Moennig barrel tapers are different from ones made now. Your 10G barrel is like an original Moennig barrel of the same era.
With the newer Buffets, you do not need the steepness of the older tapers.
Ridenour makes a big deal about this, as do I.
They is why my little boutique "industry" has evolved to the point where Fobes, Chadash, and Segal have been named to the next G21 meeting ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2009-12-19 15:47)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-12-19 17:50
If the throat tones and corresponding high clarion notes are flat while the rest of the instrument is OK, you should try barrels a millimeter or two shorter. Since the proportional change is greater for the shorter tube length, the rise in pitch will be greater for the notes that are further out.
I strongly agree with Allan. Kalmen Opperman made my barrels, beginning with a reverse-conical bore and tweaking it to adjust the tuning and focus the sound. It's magical to sit in a barrel maker's studio as he (I don't know of any women) makes one tiny adjustment after another to match a barrel to your mouthpiece, instrument and way of blowing.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ginny
Date: 2009-12-19 18:15
I am getting my self a new short barrel I think. My current 650 sounds (stock with my Festival Buffet) so poor compared to my 660 I want to replace it. I need to have the short barrel as my latest embouchure change has me playing flat (on a Festival!) even when pretty warmed up. What barrels should I consider, what intonation issues do they have and what are the expected tonal differences.
I note that the inside of the 650 is very rough compared to my 660, is there something that can be done about that. I'm pretty sure the roughness makes for a less pleasing tone.
Since it's not useful to me as is I'm willing to futz around with it, they don't have a barrel test like the famous wall and reed test.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: salzo
Date: 2009-12-19 19:26
Thank You for the responses.
Ken- I have been trying a 65 Moennig- my first impression was that it was not doing enough for the throat tones, and that the second register was a bit sharper. The more I am playing it, the better it seems to be getting. pulling out the middle joint seems to be giving me the results I am looking for (pulling out anything besides the barrel is something I am new to)-and it does seem that is working better than the stock buffet I was trying (today, at least). It is going to be awhile before I commit to a barrel, but I am hoping to avoid any wood removal on the newer horns.
Incidentally, the measurements of the barrels I have been working with are as follows.
10g 66- 588.5, 581
Moennig 65- 587, 578.5
" 66- 586.5, 578
" 67- 586.5-578
Buffet stock 66-586.5, 587.5
Alseg- How far are you from Philly?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-12-19 20:31
Ginny, you stated : "I note that the inside of the 650 is very rough compared to my 660, is there something that can be done about that. I'm pretty sure the roughness makes for a less pleasing tone. "
That is NOT entirely the case. Some rough barrels play very well, and some smooth ones do not. Opperman always stated that once you get to the sound you want, do not do anything more to the bore. I agree, although I do burnish and seal most of the bores that I fashion.
In other words....Handsome is as handsome does.
Salzo....I grew up in Phila., but now live near Pittsburgh.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DougR
Date: 2009-12-19 23:54
Here's a quick barrel question, if anyone's still reading the thread:
I have a "mystery" barrel that came with my R13 A (a 189,000 series), which I bought used. It's stamped MOENNIG on the front, and on the back "1231 67*". (Actually, the * is kind of a gouge in the wood, rather than a decipherable letter/number.)
It's a mystery to me whether this is a Bb barrel or an A barrel. Any ideas?
I also have a Moennig Buffet barrel I bought for my A about 10 yrs ago that is stamped on the back: "1131 650".
I've always assumed this was for an A clarinet, but then, how do you tell?
thanks for a great thread, everyone, by the way.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-12-20 00:07
1231 used to be for an A clarinet.
The extra symbol? I dont know. It might be a flaw.
67mm is longish for an A barrel.
Later barrels were designated R13 Bb or A and mm length.
Vintage was marked V in script, with a numeral 2 designating which barrel was tapered.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
