 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Jeff Gegner
Date: 2000-11-27 16:29
I keep a cigar humidor at 72% humidity with a simple solution. Propylene Glycol mixed 50/50 with distilled water. soak a piece of florists swamp foam with the solution. The solution will absorb any humidity above 72% and releases humidity below 72 %. You occasionally have to add more water to the system, but the PG part stays for a long time. This is a simple chemical reaction.
I put a piece of foam in a perforated pill bottle and tossed it in my clarinet case. If it works for the cigar humidor, why won't it work for the horn.
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Author: Jodi
Date: 2000-11-29 02:04
What exactly is Propylene Glycol?
I don't want anything that might kill me in my case where it could spill on my reeds or instrument or something...
And where do you get it?
Is 72% the ideal humidity?
This turned out to be a three part question!
Thank you,
Jodi
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Author: Jeff Gegner
Date: 2000-11-29 13:12
Propylene Glycol is a liquid found in some cough medicines. I purchase mine through a local pharmacy, it is very cheap. I I don't know what the perfect humidity is, but my technician seemed to think it was a good idea. I do not allow the liquid to come into direct contact with the instrument. The stuff has no odor, and does not impart any "flavor" to the case. If it did the cigar smokers would not be able to use it in their humidors.
Good luck, and good playing
Jeff
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-11-29 18:33
Propylene glycol is closely related to ethylene glycol, our common automobile antifreeze, and some cheaper antifreezes use it [if you need a gallon!!] .Sounds like a good solution re: humidity, I should think the Eth Gly would be equally suitable, and by not using much, I'd think there would not be any odor problem. Of course dont drink either one!! Don
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Author: Jeff Gegner
Date: 2000-11-29 19:53
BIG difference between the two. The ethylene glycol will kill you, the Propylene will not. I do not know the hydroscopic nature of ethylene glycol, but I doubt if it is the same. The Propylene glycol will absorb or release humidity to hold the 72% so if you are in a really humid area it will reduce the humidity. I would not substitute between the two.
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Author: Jeff Gegner
Date: 2000-11-29 20:02
Here is some information I found on the web concerning toxicity.
Please use the Propylene Glycol, although they both work as a deicing agent!
Ethylene Glycol:
"The estimated lethal dose of ethylene glycol for an average size person is about 100
milliliters - or less than one-half cup. In lesser amounts, ethylene glycol is known to cause
serious kidney damage and central nervous system depression."
"Neither ethylene glycol nor propylene glycol appears in the Environmental Protection
Agency's (EPA) list of "hazardous substances" or "extremely hazardous substances." However, by
virtue of its oral toxicity, ethylene glycol is classified as a "toxic chemical" under SARA, Title
III, Section 313."
"Reported accidental poisoning of human and household pets has been a result of improper
handling and disposal of products containing ethylene glycol."
Propylene Glycol:
"Propylene glycol exhibits low toxicity when ingested, as long-term use in approved food and
pharmaceutical applications has demonstrated."
"... propylene glycol is generally recognized as safe (GRAS) 21 {CFR 184.1666} for internal
consumption and is cleared for use as direct and indirect additive in food and
pharmaceuticals..."
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-11-29 20:36
May I tip my hat to you, Jeff, your research is excellent. No doubt but that pr. gly is safer, I'm sure most of us have seen the ads "dont let your dog lap up et gly". That occured to me after posting, but considering the minimal amounts under consideration, and not knowing the vapor pressure character differences between the two solutions, for humidity regulation, I jumped to a hasty conclusion. Its a pleasure to talk physical chemistry again. Don
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2000-11-29 20:46
Slightly off-topic, but if I can save someone's pet cat or dog...
As mentioned above, ethylene glycol, which is the primary ingredient of anti-freeze is highly toxic. It is also highly attractive to animals because it apparently has a sweet taste. So, if you change your anti-freeze yourself, be careful not to spill any on the ground and, if you do, immediately clean it up.
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