 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarchick
Date: 2009-12-11 22:47
I have seen older horns with a hole in the cork of the bottom top joint. What is this for?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-12-12 01:04
That hole appears on all clarinets with an articulated C#/G# mechanism. The hole for the note is on the top of the lower joint (instead of the bottom of the upper joint) and goes through the socket. The hole through the cork continues the the chimney through the tenon cork and wood to the bore.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-12-12 08:02
Here's a set of Selmer Series 9 clarinets with the C#/G# hole going through the middle tenon: http://www.clarinetperfection.com/galleryclar/Keywork/FB/07.jpg
As the articulated C#/G# is no longer an option on the main three big name clarinets (Buffet, Leblanc and Selmer), you're right in saying you've mostly seen it on older instruments as they stopped offering the various keywork options between 10 and 15 years ago. You'll still see it on handmade German Boehm system instruments and on the top model Amati Boehm system clarinets.
The Selmers in the photo date from 1962 (A) and 1978 (Bb) - the 10S was also available with a variety of keywork options (including articulated C#/G#) but now the only additional/optional piece of keywork you'll find is the LH Ab/Eb lever.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2009-12-12 08:39
Worth mentioning why...
As I understand it, the best place for the tone hole (the the sake of the note) is in the joint. The more common place for it to be, on the upper joint, is a compromise.
I have it there on my Leblanc LL, as well as my Bb and A silver Selmers
Chris
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2009-12-12 13:19
That tone hole placement really does make a difference in the clarinet's intonation. I don't have any instruments with the hole bored in the tenon, but I do have a 1931 Buffet in A with a one-piece body. The C#/G# tone hole is placed where the tenon would be if the clarinet had a center joint. That clarinet has the best intonation of any I've ever played. For me, it's a big argument in favor of making clarinets with one-piece bodies, since putting the hole in the tenon weakens the tenon.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-12-12 14:57
Very good info! My single-body [old] Pruefer "3/4 F B" has a V G C#/G# as does my 1932 Selmer F B, and doesn't require the more tweaking efforts which may slighjtly improve the "wrap-around" comventional key, even tho some later mfgrs have helped it some. The clrity and intonation of it and the "pinch Bb" are the main foctors on whjich I judge a cl's worth. AM thots , Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Ed
Date: 2009-12-12 18:26
Chris mentioned the additional key options. I recall years ago when looking at a Selmer catalogue, you would find a variety of options- Mazzeo System, full Boehm, articulated C#/G#, LH third finger ring, etc. It is interesting that none of these are any longer an option. While I realize that they were likely not big money makers, there are a variety of players who liked these options, especially some doublers.
My only complaint with the articulated C# is that you no longer have the option of using the long fingering for high F.
As to having optimal placement for the tonehole, that is one reason that Rossi makes the one piece body. It enables the maker to place the hole where it fits acoustically, rather than be limited by the joint.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-12-12 19:23
One further advantage of the articulated C#/G# is that it requires a longer centre tenon to contain the tonehole (except of course for one-piece bodies) which incidentally produces a much firmer and more stable connection between the upper/lower joints.
The hole does not make the tenon significantly weaker and when tenons do get broken, almost invariably by careless handling, the break virtually always occurs at point where tenon meets the full diameter of body.
My pair of LL's with art. C#/G# (and forked Bb/Eb) are still going strong after 49 years.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-12-13 00:43
Most clarinets with the articulated C#/G# will have a metal lined middle socket. Those built by Buffet, Selmer and the few Yamahas built with the articulated C#/G# have it, but for some reason my Leblanc LL doesn't have a metal lined socket - not sure if all Leblancs are like this.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2009-12-13 02:02
Mine neither
Leblanc LL
Chris
Post Edited (2009-12-13 04:38)
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Author: ISM
Date: 2009-12-13 04:58
I recently acquired a second-hand Amati ACL 314 (which has the Full Boehm keywork minus the low Eb but including the C#/G# key discussed here). This is a recent vintage instrument. I bought it because I am curious about the functionality of these extra keys.
So far the experiment is going pretty well, but the pad on the C#/G# key is deteriorating and is sticking. I have read that the pad for this key can be tricky. I wonder if you have any recommendations on what type of pad would be best for this key. And incidentally, if you can recommend a repair person in the Los Angeles area who is willing to work on Amatis and who is familiar with the Full Boehm keywork, that would be fabulous too. RDG Woodwinds is the famous place here that I know about, but they tell me that they only work on Buffet clarinets.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-12-13 09:43
Use a cork pad on the articulated C#/G# key as that will function and last better than a skin or leather pad.
I do find it strange and rather elitist (no pun intended) that some companies will only work on Buffets when there are plenty of other top makes and models of clarinets that a lot of people are playing that may not be held in such high esteem as Buffets, but are equal to or in many cases much better than Buffets. Seems very narrow minded to me.
Although I will generally tend to work on pro models (of any make), I will work on any make and model if the customer is willing to pay for the work - and if it's uneconomical to work on a certain instrument (eg. a cheap Chinese thing) I'll let them know.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-12-13 10:42
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Leblanc LL full Boehm:
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-12-13 14:36
I looked again at my 3 cl's with the artic. The older Pruefer single body[1920's perhaps] !! has the " banana key" between the 1st and 2nd lower rings operating its own key-pad, an additional tone hole, . not connected with the Left L F touch ! My '32 Sel RI is as shown in above pics and has the metal lined socket. My '50's Leblanc Dynamic 2 is key-wise the same, but no metal! My recall of a Penz. Muel. about 1925 , was of the "standard" keying, but no metal either. FWIW, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-12-13 22:39
Ideally the pad used for C#/G# key should be same type as for the RH ring key since these normally operate together.
I've never had a problem with using good quality skin pads here however it's a good idea to regularly clean out the C#/G# tonehole in both sections as cork grease can build up inside and affect both the pad and intonation.
1. use good quality grease.
2. use the grease sparingly.
3. when storing instrument a small piece of cigarette paper under the pad will prevent any tendency to stick (but don't forget to remove it unless you want your C# to sound like a kazoo!!)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2013-10-30 04:30
Leblanc LL full Boehm.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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