 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-12-10 04:27
Just bought a used Buffet R13 A, and its got some problems that confound me.
It is really resistant --particularly as the right hand fingers go down.
If tuned for 3rd line C, the "Thumb C" is about 40-cents sharp.(!)
This has serial number 79xxx, placing its birth in September of 1989.
Do any of you folks have suggestions as to how to cure this beautiful piece of wood's problems? I'd sure appreciate suggestions.
Bob Phillips
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-12-10 04:32
Bob Phillips wrote:
> This has serial number 79xxx, placing its birth in September of
> 1989.
An R13 with the serial #79xxx would be approximately 1964.
...GBK
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Author: soybean
Date: 2009-12-10 04:55
It might be the wrong barrel. Does yours say Buffet? It could be from another clarinet.
~Dan
(Leblanc Bliss, Buffet R13 key of A, Yamaha 250 Bb)
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-12-10 17:05
Thanks GBK.
I'm confused about the dates. I used the Buffet site's serial number search, and found two Buffets with that serial number. 'le Americain' for 1964 and "paris" for 1989.
I have a 1961 vintage full Boehm Buffet that has intonation problems, too. They are more on the order of an uneven scale, not this huge rise in pitch across the clarion register. Did Buffet make some drastic change to their clarinets after the '60's that greatly improved their intonation. I can't lip 40 cents; and certainly don't want to have to change my "look-ahead" embouchure changes so differently to accommodate my A after working for years with my current Bb to "get in tune."
Thanks soybean.
The barrel is a 67-mm Buffet part. There is also an unlabled "Backun" barrel with the instrument that brings about the same sort of intonation characteristics.
Does this seem to be a problem that can be approached with a custom tuning barrel?
thanks
Bob Phillips
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Author: William
Date: 2009-12-10 18:38
Two things that might help: 1) the C6 can be brought down a little by adding filler to the top half of the first finger hole. If this can get it to *only* 20 cents sharp, you should be able to lip it the rest of the way. C6 is generally sharp on Buffet clarinets and we all learn to "deal with it"--some more, some less....depends on the accoustics of the particular instrument. My 89XXX Buffet A is sharp "up there" but I manage quite well--just takes listening and practice. 2) try tuning your Buffet A C5 with your Buffet Bb bell. Shorter bell will requite needing to tune flatter and might also bring down the pitch of those upper notes. May also help lessen resistance in right hand notes.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-12-11 00:41
My Buffet A clarinet, and Bb for that matter, are both in the 90K series and I bought both of them in the early 60s. If I understand your problem the 3nd C is much sharper than the two octave Cs below. Do I assume the notes directly below, the B,Bb and A are reasonably in tune so only the C is very sharp? Can I also assume that the 12th below, the thumb F, is not sharp. If that's the case it is possible it is a problem with the size or length of the register tube. If both the high C and the 12th below are both sharp it is an easy fix. Try cleaning the tube out for starters, use a pipe cleaner, slightly damped. You might even need to use a small screw drive and "gently" scrape out any build up if it has any. If it's not dirty then find a repair person that has a selection of tubes to try. If that doesn't help you will have to contact an "expert" in tuning. My question to you is, why did you buy it if it has such a tuning problem. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: donald
Date: 2009-12-11 01:10
I have found the "average" R13 A to have a high C that is 20c sharp when compared to the F a fourth below (top line F). There are various things that can be done to remedy this partially- and it is by no means this sharp on ALL R13 A clarinet.
The one A clarinet (R13) i owned/played that had a sharp C between 20-30c sharp was a beautiful sounding clarinet (allegedly tuned etc by Moennig, but who knows?) that had an incredibly in tune scale... up to A..... A-B-C in the left hand upper register were ridiculously sharp. It turned out that this was because... ta da... a B flat clarinet register vent had been installed (this also made throat B flat quite sharp, although very clear sounding). Changing back to an A clarinet vent (shortened by about 1mm) left the top C only 10-20 cents sharp.
An RC A clarinet I owned played terribly with the "stock" barrel that came with the instrument (65A). Almost every other barrel I used on this instrument had greatly improved intonation- so it's worth trying this out. The original barrel with this clarinet was so bad, it was like i was playing a different instrument when i put on one of my R13 barrels.
dn
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2009-12-11 12:35
re: resistant longer note
You could have a very small leak in one of the lower joint pads. Check them all very carefully, or have your tech check them very carefully. Look also at each tonehole for imperfections that could affect sealing.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-12-12 01:53
Thank you all, who are helping me with this problem.
I am once again hugely gratified to find so much willing and insightful coaching here on this great clarinetists' resource.
I bought the instrument because it seemed to be a bargain --about 1/3 the price of a new R13 A. So far, it seems that I've gotten my money's worth. DARN.
Here's where I am so far.
It is bad with all barrels. I have a couple of otherwise wonderful barrels that bring 40-cent wide 12ths to my Buffet RC, and they make the upper clarion on this A go 80-cents sharp. With these barrels, when I finger a C my tuner reports that I'm sounding a 40-cents flat Bb.
The thumb F is ok, with a few cents of its neighbors, but the register leap is still 40-cents wide in the upper clarion.
The altissimo is also about 40-cents sharp!
I had a tech look at the pad sealing, and he gave it a "strong pass," saying that it is as tight as one that he has just repadded.
I have not yet taken a look into the covered tone-holes, but will go now and pull the register key.
I don't know the difference between an A and a Bb register vent.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-12-14 03:05
Hello Bob,
With so many confounding results with your instrument, I would suggest "cutting to the chase" and hand it off to a friend (or teacher) and see what pitch they produce on the instrument.
This does not circumvent any of the advice given above, but it would be beneficial to know that someone else produces the same "flaws".
Tobin
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-12-14 17:00
Thanks, Tobin
I've done that. No one can lip it down 20-cents, and the difference between this horn and my (excellent) Bb is too much to deal with. There are a few notes on the Bb that have to be favored for intonation, and the habits formed on the Bb of anticipating the pitch of the coming note(s) just don't apply to the "new" A.
SIGH
Bob Phillips
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-12-14 17:24
Does the upper joint serial # match the one on the lower??
I am surprised it came with a 67mm barrel....long, for any A-clar, which means that the original owner might have tried some tricks to flatten it and failed. I wonder if it is a Bb barrel.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-12-14 19:47
Weird...it's like somebody reamed out the bore so they could play along with the Vienna Philharmonic or something.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-12-14 20:53
Thanks Alseg.
The serial numbers match on the two joints.
This morning I tried using a heavily reverse-tapered Orsi&Weir barrel on it, and that reduced the sharpeness of the thumb C from over 40 cents to about 20-cents.
I'm wondering if this poor old (1964 --is, I guess) has had its bore go out of round.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-12-15 16:12
1964 falls withing the legendary Golden Era for Buffets (some controversy as to whether that is true).....BUT, surely there were some less than golden instruments produced in that era.*
Also...more controversy here...it might be "blown out." Some folks can have a horn forever, use it often, and it remains playable. Other instruments seem to lose their luster over time.
*In 1965, Tony Gigliotti told me that he would rial dozens of instruments when visiting Buffet in France. As I recall, he did not get a new one for himself on his sojourn at that time...in fact Moennig, according to AMG, was bugging him to bring in his instrument for a tune up, accusing him (sarcastically) of having "velvet hands."
So maybe, just maybe, that horn is dead. Nonetheless, why not have a tip top clarinet tech see it?
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2009-12-15 19:04
I have an old Buffet A with the same problem. If I play the high c with the right hand down it brings the pitch down to normal.
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