 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2009-12-04 15:00
In my other thread, someone mentioned that anyone can take out old pads and put new ones in.....that is my thought about it too. I also have heard, but theres more to it than that......
for you repair techs out there - what is the "more" to replacing a pad?
what does one need to know in order to do it right?
what are some mistakes people usually make who dont know what they are doing?
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Author: knotty
Date: 2009-12-04 15:22
I'm just learning fixing clarinets but have done four clarinet re-pads and can say, putting in new pads is pretty straight forward but to get them to seal perfectly is much more of a challenge.
For me, putting in just the right amount of glue, (I use shellac chips) is a bit tricky so it doesn't squeeze out the edges, yet enough to cover all the pad bottoms.
Oh, I take all the keys off before re-padding. So, you have to re-assemble too. You will find the best way that suits you best in time.
For my own clarinets, the thinking goes, if I take all the keys off, I might as well polish them too (if needed) and of course re-lube once assembled. I don't suppose you would do this for customers instruments unless requested.
Much more experienced people will chime in I'm sure.
knotty
~ Musical Progress: None ~
Post Edited (2009-12-04 15:34)
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2009-12-04 16:11
Janlynn,
I tend to get a little snippy when I read or hear someone say, gosh it's just a pad, what is there to replacing a pad? You just heat the cup, remove the old one and stuff another one in there, big deal. There is a lot more to putting in a pad and doing it correctly.
I have been at this repair business for almost 41 years and I started on clarinets. I have studied under a few good repair people along the way and other very fine repair folks have been generous with advice and valuable help to make me a better repair guy. One of the most important skills to have is to be a decent if not rather talented player, without that skill you will have to trust someone else to test every move/repair/adjustment you make and that's not always possible.
As an apprentice it will be much easier to gather up the experience needed to be able to determine how to approach any repair whether it could be a repadding or maybe just a simple adjustment because you always have your mentor looking over your shoulder for guidance.
Even when it comes to student clarinets you need to put the correct pad into every key not just so that it fits the cup but it cannot be too thick or too thin. Then there's the problem solving aspect of should I use a skin, kid or cork pad for this key? Does the key now move the needed distance to allow air to escape the tone hole? While you had it apart, was the tone hole damaged, chipped, dented or in need of some other repair? Is the new pad seated properly? If it still leaks and you think you have covered all of the bases, what do you do now? What kind of tools do you need to test that pad correctly?
Experience will surely help but this is still pretty minor, pros want a LOT more than a pad that seals, they want you to test intonation, they want every note to be clear and well centered, they want their clarinet to play at a professional level and if you can't test your repairs to see if they meet that level, you won't get much repeat business.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2009-12-04 18:33
--- "for you repair techs out there - what is the "more" to replacing a pad?
what does one need to know in order to do it right?" --
Nothing to do with repair techs. If you play an instrument, you should know how to look after it.
There are skilled people who will determine the pad height, spring strength, repair broken tenons, replace pads with their own special cork pads etc.
But straight forward pad replacement should be something that every clarinetist can do. Many, many years ago people used to melt shellac in the pads. Their doctors probably used leeches to ease blood pressure. These days we use stuff like Micro Pad cement that you squeeze from a tube. Basically a low-temp melting point glue.
It's great fun and you learn so much in the process. We don't all live in big cities with woodwind experts close by.
Steve
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-12-05 02:36
Dear Seve,
I was wondering if you guys ever have problems with the pads starting to "pop out" on very hot days with this sort of glue?
I still use leeches.
I have seen some of the "new kids on the block" around here use a glue that they can heat with a blow dryer. I think this is just asking for trouble down the road in situations where temperatures can sore rather high in a normal room......like in Italy for instance.
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-12-05 02:51
If you are using a blow dryer then you are heating the entire area around the key? Could it not be damaging to the wood (drying, cracking) to heat up the whole area like that?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-12-05 05:50
>> Many, many years ago people used to melt shellac in the pads. Their
>> doctors probably used leeches to ease blood pressure. These days we
>> use stuff like Micro Pad cement that you squeeze from a tube.
There are many types of heat melting glues and shellacs. Most are (sometimes significantly) different from each other. I've tried many, and for clarinet pads I most often use this: http://www.jlsmithco.com/s.nl/it.A/id.21084/.f
Definitely prefer this over the Micro pad glue. There are also some other glues that look mostly the same and sold in pellets with same shape but are very different. I use amber shellac most of the time for sax pads.
More on modern vs. old, there are many modern techniques, material and tools that are better than what was in the past. But for example I have an electric heater and three different gas torches. I still use an alcohol lamp for 90% of pad replacements, including plastic clarinets.
>> But straight forward pad replacement should be something that every clarinetist can do. <<
IME pad replacements are very often not exactly straight forward.
Post Edited (2009-12-05 07:52)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-12-05 08:22
"I have seen some of the "new kids on the block" around here use a glue that they can heat with a blow dryer. I think this is just asking for trouble down the road in situations where temperatures can sore rather high in a normal room......like in Italy for instance."
It's not just the "new kids on the block" that use this type of glue - some of the oldest and most popular manufacturers use this type of glue as well (mentioning no names, but they're both French).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2009-12-05 16:02
Look at youtube ....clarinet overhaul...(Mrs Birdie.) This is a good starting point.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-12-05 17:36
I'm surprised that no one [yet] has brought up the subject of pad-seating and in some cases a bit of tone-hole repair. ON, You present and would-be repairers. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: bwilber
Date: 2009-12-05 20:07
Hi. I have been repadding clarinets for a couple of years for a hobby and feel like I am finally getting the hang of it so to speak. It's been a real learning experience. Just when I think I have it down pat, I will find that I still have something to learn. If you have a clarinet that is in perfect adjustment, then I would use that as my model and start out by getting a cheap Bundy off of Ebay and learn how to do it perfectly before trying to redo a more expensive clarinet. You will need lots of pads of several different sizes. The pads that Music Medic sells are very good quality. You will need small screwdrivers and small pointed pliers to pull the rods out of the holes. You will need to lift and push the springs with. You will need 2 sizes of pad levelers. You will need steel wool for getting the cork off the joints. You will need several thicknesses of good quality cork. You will need small snippets of paper for slipping around the pad to see that the pad is sealing all around and has even tension all around the pad. A leak light is handy but not necessary. You will need brushes for cleaning the inside and outside of the body of the clarinet. You will need oil if you are working with a wood clarinet. You will need something to polish the keys. I use Flitz but you will need to clean off the keys after they are polished. You will need pipe cleaners for cleaning out the keys where the rods go. You will need cotton for cleaning out the ends of the keys where the screws go. You will need to know when a key is bent and how to bend it back where it's supposed to go. You will need to know how high the trill keys need to be and how high the cork needs to be on each of the keys so that they are the correct height when they are depressed. You will need to know the correct size of cork to put on all of the keys so that they are the correct height when depressed. You will need to know how to adjust the bridge keys so that they both come down at the exact right height. You will need lots of emery boards for sanding the joint corks and key pad silencer corks. I could go on but you are getting the point. My best advice is to have a clarinet either done by a professional or use one that is in perfect adjustment and study each and every key. After you have done maybe 20 or 30, you will feel like you are getting the hang of it. I agree that anyone who plays the clarinet will greatly benefit if they know how to take care of it and not depend on the shop to keep it working perfectly. Around here, you will be waiting at least a month if you take an instrument in to get it fixed, before you get it back again.
Bonnie Wilber
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2009-12-06 17:46
Bonnie , can you please email me at bostontsabby@yahoo.com.
thanks.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-12-06 18:29
An instrument shouldn't be out of your hands for a month at a technician unless they need to order a special part and the instrument is unplayable without it. A good tech will schedule an appointment. You may need to wait a few weeks until they'll work on it, but I wouldn't expect an instrument to be in at the technician more than a day for minor repairs, or a week (maybe a bit more, depending on the level of work needed) for an overhaul. If your instrument is out for a month, chances are it's sitting in a corner most of that time, or has been shipped off elsewhere.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: bwilber
Date: 2009-12-06 21:03
Hello. That is it. There aren't that many places around here that repair instruments and so they are sent out to get fixed and since there aren't that many places, the wait list can be quite a long while so I do think around here anyway, it would be a good idea for a person who depends on their clarinet for school or band to be able to put in their own pads. Also, if your clarinet is squawking, it could be that the clarinet just has a leaking pad. I think that when a shop sells a clarinet to a person, that they should show the buyer how to test for any leaks and how to do a simple pad install but then that would probably void any warranty. I think those pads that seat with a blow drier would probably be good for emergency repairs until it can be taken into a shop for a proper repad.
Bonnie Wilber
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-12-07 08:06
> IME pad replacements are very often not exactly straight forward.
Nitai, I don't agree with the "very often" part. Sure, there's always the potential problem of chipped toneholes and the like, but this would be outside the scope of the "replace a worn pad 1000 miles from the next repair shop" question anyway.
If one has the dexterity to play the clarinet one also has the dexterity to replace a pad on it. (I don't say it can be done without practice...)
My field kit contains pads, a stick of glue, an army knife and a bic lighter. Just for kicks I repadded a complete clarinet with only these utensils. No need for blow-drying glue and the like, not even for an emergency.
--
Ben
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2009-12-14 12:14
Use narrow strips of mylar film (gift wrapping or candy wrappers) to check sealing. There's no chance of damaging the hole and it's thinner and stronger than paper, and not affected by moisture. Check at 4 points of circumference.
Tony F.
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Author: sue
Date: 2009-12-14 18:05
Can anyone comment on the clarinet pads and adhesives available on that auction site? I'm not interested in the ones from China, but some sellers are offering US made pads - Hermes, Precision. There are marked differences in price. Is it get what you pay for?
Sue
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-12-15 05:58
>> I'm not interested in the ones from China, but some sellers
>> are offering US made pads - Hermes, Precision. There are
>> marked differences in price. Is it get what you pay for?
I don't have experience with Hermes clarinet pads, but I have with Hermes saxophone pads. The ones I've seen were IMO significatly worse than the pads I prefer so decided not to bother with them. I have no idea if their clarinet pads are like this too.
I have tried clarinet (and saxophone) pads from Precision. They have two models for clarinet pads, one with woven felt and one with pressed felt. I haven't tried the pressed felt model. The model I've tried was pretty good but IMO not as good as what I use so decided not to change. Maybe the pressed felt model is better.
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