 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2009-12-03 17:38
My Father and I have been talking about the future (5 yrs) and the possibilities of having a clarinet related business.
We would like to have something like a clarinet specialty shop. There are only 2 music stores in my area and they dont have a clue about clarinets or anything much more than guitars and keyboards. only carry Rico reeds and if by chance they have Vandoren they dont have anything over a 2.5 and never any V12's or other popular brands.
Some things we would like to include are accessories, music, instruments, gifts, repair, and lessons.
After the holiday, we are going to get some clarinets to learn how to repad and then go to more complicated repairs after that. I am hoping to get a student (ot two)to teach. and also start learning what clarinetists would like available to them. and learn as much as i can about products.
So my question is - if you were to go into a clarinet specialty shop.....what kind of things would you expect to see, and what kinds of things would you like to see? I realize the market for this may not be out there (in my area) but just wanted to run it by you guys and get your thoughts.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-12-03 20:00
"get some clarinets to learn how to repad "
You would be smart to learn to repad all of the woodwind instruments if, for no other reason, to service clarinetist who double on sax, flute, and the double reeds. It is not just about "pads" but also, corks, springs, key repair and allignment, rings, crack repair, dent removal, repair of metal cracks (sax joints) and a list of problems I am probably not even thinking of, but might come up--even in a clarinets only specialty shoppe repair room. Being versitile in repairs would be to your finacial advantage.
What I would like to see in your shoppe: a large inventory of new and used instruments to audition from the little effer down to the contra bass; reeds of all brands--including Forestone & Legere; mouthpieces--stock and custom (Grabner, Smith, Fobes, etc); ligatures--1000's to find just the right one for me lol; accessories such as oils, greases, swabs, etc. Also clarinet solo & ensemble music; CD & DVDs of viruositic performances;
The ideal inventory for the dream clarinet specialty shoppe is probably endless and very expensive. You will probably start with just the basics and grow with your business. Advertising will be your friend. Good luck.
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Author: Leo Sesemann
Date: 2009-12-03 20:04
I would like to have the possibility to try any Clarinet of the big companies (S, BC,L,Y) and not only one of each type... and a lot of mouthpieces as well!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-12-03 20:50
Hi Janlynn, in mid-America, for especial repairs and advice I have many times gone to McGuire Inst Repair, Tulsa OK, a "family enterprise," from father to sons Carl [a fine oboist] and Steve [a fine cl'ist] so I'm suggesting looking into their web site for info . Also I am always impressed by fine work by John Butler , Houston suburb TX, a BBoard sponser I believe, and prob. a web site. Best Wishes, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Neal Raskin
Date: 2009-12-03 21:10
I would make sure to have a nice, easy to use and resourceful website. Even though you might be starting small, allow for online purchasing. I know I won't be in massachusetts any time soon, but I would love to buy my reeds from smaller "family" shops if they can compete with the price. If you can compete, right out of the gate with WWBW, weiner music etc., I would purchase all of my reeds, ligs, and mouthpieces from you.
Good luck and keep us up to date!
Neal Raskin
www.youtube.com/nmraskin
www.musicedforall.com
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2009-12-03 22:56
If you want to do repairs, there are some great books available. Get some of those now and start reading. I use "A Guide To Repairing Woodwinds" by Ronald Saska. I pretty much stick to maintaining my own clarinet collection, but I have found it excellent. I'm sure many others on the site have their favorites as well. If you have no other source, buy some junkers of that auction site and practice. I got lots of experience from one that looked like someone had rolled it under foot and/or used as a weapon. Not a single key on the lower joint went where it was supposed to and the center tenon was broken.
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-12-03 23:31
Unless there's a flock of clarinetists lining up for products and services where you live, you probably need to branch out into either all woodwinds, or become the local band/orchestra store. I can't see making a living off of just local clarinetists in a brick and mortar store.
If clarinets are the only thing you want to do, then you'll have to be online. You'll have to offer free return shipping on all repairs, and the repair work is gonna have to be worth the risk of shipping an expensive instrument to you. You'll need to stock clarinet gift items (T-shirts, coffee mugs, clarinet jewelry, novelties) for those who have a loved one who plays the instrument and need to pick up a gift.
In the store, you'll need to carry all those obscure products that we see online, but don't have the guts to order until we see it or try it in person.
An isolated room for instrument demonstration and testing would be good.
You'll need to start up some clarinet choirs and have performances at the store or elsewhere (play free concerts at the schools). You should sponsor a concert of a clarinet celebrity. You'll need to do something charitable like fixing up old clunkers for underpriviledged kids to have, and you'll need to have a good PR program to make sure all this good stuff gets covered in the media or these efforts won't do you much good.
Divide the store by instrument level...beginner stuff, intermediate, pro, and maybe even have a "premier" area for the stuff that's "to die for."
You'll have to ask the schools if you can set up a table/booth at their concerts (offer to pay to print their programs and make sure to include your logo and contact info). You'll need a rental program and some way to provide lessons at the shop. And of course, you'll need to know how to fix what breaks (like the instrument a high schooler drops between the bleachers from 12 steps up to the concrete below). You gotta know more than just how to repad an instrument.
You gotta be the "clarinet destination." Otherwise, most experienced clarinetists will just continue to order what they already know they want and need online elsewhere.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-12-04 02:48
How much of a market is there in your area for clarinetists? Back-of-the-napkin calculations:
Estimate the number of clarinetists in your area, say 100, and estimate how much a clarinetist may spend per year on clarinet things, say $1,000. That's $100,000 maximum potential income for your shop. Now consider that, the things you sell, you actually have to buy, and cut that number in half (so $50,000), assuming you're selling something high-margin, which music supplies, I think, generally aren't (so maybe an optimistic $40,000). Subtract rent, utilities, marketing, wages...
And that assumes that they'll all use your shop exclusively, as opposed to the other music stores, online, etc. You yourself can try to create an online presence, but that's a significant undertaking as well.
A clarinet shop sounds like a great idea, but I don't know if you could get the business to support it anywhere other than a major metro area. In L.A., we have one really good reed-instrument-specific shop that does sales and repairs, and a very large portion of the local clarinetists go there.
From what I hear, even the average local mom&pop that caters to ALL instruments and is relatively successful is not a terribly profitable venture.
If you have a particularly outstanding repair shop, and customers that are willing to pay for a good repair, you may be able to make a go of it. However, this will involve a lot more than a couple books on padding and repair. I'd highly recommend going to one of the reputable repair schools (e.g. Red Wing, Renton). I think the programs are one academic year at both.
Anyone can claim to do repadding, and anyone can remove old pads and replace them with new ones. However, I know a good technician that will routinely say, "oh, you took it to [such and such music store]? Now it will DEFINITELY need work!" (in slightly more diplomatic terms) Don't become that store. The mark of a good repair person, in my book, is someone that returns your instrument with things fixed that you didn't know were fixable, and things playing better than you thought they could. Getting my instrument back and commenting "yeah, looks like everything works" tends to not get the technician return business from me.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-12-04 02:54
I hate to say this but I think this is a pipe dream. No one that I've ever heard of makes a business from just clarinets but that doesn't mean there is no one. It's a very competitive business and there are many mail order store like Muncy's, WWBrass Wind, Weiners, and many more. I guess the only one I know that comes close is Vincent Marinelli in Delaware. There may be some others like him around. But he also sells saxophones and is an accomplished repairman as well as teacher and performer. You have to be knowledgeable about business matters, be an excellent repair person for most woodwinds, that usually means taking a course in woodwind repair and perhaps even apprenticing with someone or hiring an experienced person to do the repairs. To make the business successful you probably will need studio space to hire other teachers to teach some other instrument, the more teachers you can hire, paid by the lesson, the more business you will bring in. That's also a way to sell instruments, music and accessories. You will also need a good website and a very large inventory which is very costly. In order to compete with the big boys you have to sell instruments at a competitive price which usually means buying in quantity, which adds to your start up costs considerably. So I just want you to think about this. I don't mean to discourage you but you have to be realistic. It's a very competitive business. You probably can't make a living from local business alone unless you have very low overhead, teach a lot, do your own quality repairs and have a good inventory of student and professional model instruments. I wish you the best of luck, I just want you to go into it with your eyes wide opened. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2009-12-04 11:09
Thank You for all the information everyone. I will pass it on to my father.
We do plan to do more than repads. That is just our starting point to learn. I figure before we try anything more complicated we should learn how to repad first.
also, we plan on having a website.
I do worry about the market not being out there. But one never knows where this might lead.
we have owned and successfully run a wholesale giftware business for over 25 years. it started in our home with just a few clown magnets. We used bedrooms as offices. It grew quite big and after adding many many products to the line we got into Disney, Rainforest Cafe, and Sea World to name a few. We know a bit about business in that respect - but not so much when it comes to clarinets and what clarinetists want. I would hate to have bought a lot of inventory and have no market for it. But this is why I'm asking you guys for advice. We DO need to be realistic while at the same time we have to start somewhere. One never knows what direction the future will bring.
The good thing is that we have jobs now. we plan to sell the business in about 5 years. so if this looks like theres no way it will make it, theres always the option of doing something else. We shall see.
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2009-12-04 11:52
You already said it, you used your home to start the last business. If you can designate a spot exclusively for your customers/repairs, then you won't be paying rent for a separate location and you can write off that portion of your home on your income tax. Even Stephen Fox works from his home to reduce overhead.
As an accountant I've seen people get into serious trouble by overextending themselves. So the thoughts already given are very helpful. You may have a wish list of what you'd like to stock, but the world is adopting a "just on time" inventory system in order to minimize storage of things that otherwise wouldn't move. How that would work and yet please those who are looking for good instruments to try...? Perhaps having a good reputation and relationship with suppliers, and a quick way of getting those instruments to you when needed, then returned so you're not stuck with the extras?
In town we have many music stores but they mostly cater to guitars and drums. Only one has what woodwind players need. But even they have the whole range of instruments, including guitars and drums. There's a small selection of instruction and music books. What I wish they'd do is move a lot faster to bring in orders for books that we need. Once I had to cancel my order with them, drive about 20 minutes down the road and buy it from another store. They could have done that in order to keep my business. (While travelling out of town, we ordered orange juice for breakfast. Instead of telling us they didn't have any more, someone ran to the corner store and bought a tetra box of it so that not only us, but others would have orange juice for breakfast! That's customer service.)
So start small, but start smart. All these ideas that have come in so far will help a lot.
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2009-12-04 13:04
You have to learn how to fix clarinets,then open a shop.
(It would take years of training under a master repairman)
Not the other way around.
There are so many mediocre repairmen out there who maybe know how to repad but have no clue for other adjustment.
If you cannot service professional clarinetist, you might as well not attempt to repair clarinets at all.
There are so few who's competent.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-12-04 13:12
When you open any kind of business, I think a few really important questions are- Can your customers get what they need without you?, Are you making their shopping experience any easier, cheaper, or higher quality?, Why would they choose you and not anything else?, Where do your potential customers get their shopping and repair done now?
Music is really hard because there are so many options out there. Online places sell things for almost wholesale; it's hard to beat that price. There is a "special something" about going to a good music store that can't be met online, but I think most of us have been guilty of looking through scores in a music store and then ordering what we want online, knowing that we will get a better price for the exact same thing.
If you can get repairs going for all instruments (or at least all woodwinds), you might have a good stable customer basis. Getting a repair contract with a local Board of Education can be very profitable if you are commissioned to fix all the instruments in the school district.
I would suggest that, if you want to do it all yourself, you should go to a one/two year repair school that will teach you how to fix everything.
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2009-12-04 14:38
Koo Young the idea isnt just to have a repair shop. the idea is to have everything clarinet related and being able to do a simple repair could possibly be part of it. we are not looking to get into major repairs.
I told my father some of the responses but have also printed them for him to read. we do have 5 years or so to determine how things will go. He said we are not going to invest a lot to start. we're going to take it slow so if we see its going nowhere, we wont be out too much.
he said to ask the question this way - if you had a place to go within 25 miles that had 'anything' you could ever want for clarinet - would you go to it - regardless if we could actually pull it off or not. is it a place you would go to?
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2009-12-04 15:00
I think bluesparkle has the right idea - if you are not going to invest much in stock or get that specialist in repairs, you need to make the place more of a "destination" in terms of events, activities, outreach into the community etc.
Think about it - a lot of the successful retail chains don't have that high a revenue per customer visit but still thrive because they are places where you can have fun, get a cup of coffee and a bite to eat and so on. Take Ikea for example. I've been to a couple of different branches perhaps 10 or 12 times over the years and, on most visits probably spent about £10 or £15 (although both my homes so far were furnished largely from their stores on a couple of the visits (lol)) but I always have fun looking round, eat in the restaurant etc. Of course, if you have paid a casual visit a few times, you then feel more confident making a major purchase when the time comes.
Just to throw a couple of other ideas into the mix, therefore, may be you should consider having a coffee shop or cafe of some kind (which would come in handy as a space for events like concerts, talks, demonstrations etc too) and also, if you are going to be a destination store, you need to be somewhere with plenty of parking/good transport connections.
Vanessa.
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Author: OldClarinetGuy
Date: 2009-12-04 17:06
Personally,
I do very small repairs myself and I send my instruments out of state to have other repairs done. I find it just as easy and cheaper to do business online for supplies. I would like to do more to support local businesses but the days of customers being patient while things are restocked or special ordered are over.
The successful shops around here seem to survive by offering rentals and repairs to middle school and high school kids, and to rent space for lessons from which they get a cut of the lesson fees. The prices that local brick and mortar businesses charge for instruments, accessories and supplies are high when compared to internet prices, and when one can get 3 to 5 instruments or mouthpieces to try out from an internet store before purchasing makes it very difficult on local stores.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-12-04 17:15
From people I know in instrument repair, the indication as to where money comes from is this: Repair pays the bills, reeds and accessories are a convenience to the customer.
This, of course, assumes a really good repair person.
Quite frankly, if you are not looking to get into major repairs, I would rather you not go into repair at all. Without proper training and lots of experience, you may fix the problem they came in for, but unknowingly create a bunch of other problems in the process. It happens a LOT, and I've heard too many good technicians' cries of "gaaaah!! what did they do????"
I think Vanessa has the right idea (I've been throwing a similar one around myself, hope to open it in a couple years) in creating a general destination and/or small venue. If the cafe can do the bulk of keeping the shop afloat, you can probably do well with an awesome clarinet specialty shop, and the two can complement each other.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-12-04 19:04
This thread reminds me of the skit on Saturday Night Live and the "All Things Scottish" shop, but the famous line would, instead, be "If it's not clarinets, it's crap!"
If you go with the cafe idea, then wonderful music should always be playing, with the CD's available for purchase. A little performance stage would probably be a good idea. You gotta have clarinet lamps on the tables and for sale. Sell instruments with bells that have the logo and color of the popular colleges. Get a collection of funny T-shirts that relate to all things music. Clarinet bumper stickers. Key chains. Instrument christmas ornaments. Clarinet art. Clarinet throw pillows. Get some of the Lyons clarinets for kids. They come in blue, pink, green and I think yellow now. How about some snazzy cases? Find an artist friend who can paint up some personalized stuff like cases, bells, etc. I just ordered 20 personalized T-shirts for my son's high school clarinet section with all their names on it, and Zorro wielding a clarinet instead of a sword (they played "Mask of Zorro" in their show this year).
Have a bulletin board and fill it with information about local performances, all the area school concerts, band competitions. Bring cold water with your logo on it to the area high schools during band camp. You gotta be fun, useful, friendly, supportive, and cool.
But you gotta sell the real deal, too if you want people to take you seriously. That's where the inventory cost may be steep.
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