 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: weberfan
Date: 2009-11-30 01:37
What a treat! I've never seen this before. Did CBS release any more of the session? And are they are sharing a pitcher of beer afterward?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2009-11-30 12:22
John...Thanks so much for finding this....Wonderful. And....how about Joe Pesci on Double Bass......!!
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mrn
Date: 2009-11-30 14:06
Awesome find! Stravinsky was the best. If I could choose only one composer to go back in time to meet, it'd be him. Ahh, if only he'd written a clarinet concerto--what a work that might have been. (Yeah, I know, he wrote "Ebony Concerto," but that's really a "concerto for band," so it doesn't really count as a clarinet concerto in my mind, the way Stravinsky's Violin Concerto does as a violin concerto.)
Anyway, from John's link I found some more interesting YouTube links in this same vein.
1.) There's a group of 12 videos that are apparently excerpts from a documentary about Stravinsky containing interviews with him, his wife Vera, and Robert Craft, as well as other Stravinsky clips. The man had a really charming personality and great sense of humor. The first one is here (they're numbered 1-12):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G85YXinRvBY&feature=related
For an really funny clip of Stravinsky in another recording session, click the below link and wait about 20 seconds. It looks like the recording engineer is taking orders from Robert Craft (seated next to him in the glasses) and relaying Craft's instructions to Stravinsky, who's not happy about their choice of place to restart. Really funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ2o_r5vJ5k&feature=related
2.) Somebody made a playlist of 20th century composers playing their own works--about 50 clips. Very interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=951A1398B484F802
3.) There are a couple of other clips of Stravinsky rehearsing. The first one (rehearsing the Symphony in C) I've posted before (but maybe not everyone who would want to has seen it)--more classic banter with the Columbia recording engineer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiPVFwvGu8U
The other one (rehearsing Pulcinella) is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3s_CbOjiiA&feature=related
Post Edited (2009-11-30 14:22)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: salzo
Date: 2009-11-30 14:35
"greatest living composer of the twentieth century"- pullease.
Granted, he had a time span of ten to 15 years where he wrote some pretty amazing music-but the rest of his compositional output was second rate.
They didnt mention when this recording took place, but whatever the date, I could think of a half dozen composers I would place the label "greatest living composer" on before Stravinsky.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-11-30 14:58
A few observations on these fascinating clips:
1) I had never heard Oppenheim though I know he was the inspiration for the Bernstein Sonata. Wonderful staccato and nice intonation in the high register.
2) True to rumors, Stravinsky did not have the best conducting technique. Even allowing for the poor alignment between sound and audio due to primitive technology, it would seem that the musicians often played despite his cues and conducting (choosing to ignore him).
3) This looks like the musical version of Mad Men. They are smoking on stage during the rehearsal and take a break to drink wine. Why does everything now have to be so PC?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2009-11-30 17:19
A good freind of mine interviewed Stravinsky for CBC television and radio in the 60s. Her recollection of him was one of greatly warm person who knew exactly what life was about. These CBC interviews are probably still hidden in the archives in Toronto. I will look into getting a hold of them if anyone is interested.
Regards
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2009-11-30 18:58
salzo wrote: "I could think of a half dozen composers I would place the label "greatest living composer" on before Stravinsky"
I'd be interested to see your list.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-12-01 15:18
I really think that any "living" composer today cannot be compared to Stravinsky because he was writing a hundred years ago and set the standard for much of what came after him. He died in 1971 so I don't think he can be referred to as a "living composer". That was almost 50 years ago. Most of todays living composers were either not ever born yet or just mere children. Please, he is certainly ONE of last centuries greatest composers. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mrn
Date: 2009-12-01 15:59
I think it all kind of comes down to semantics. The video was filmed in 1955. There's two ways to read "greatest living composer of the twentieth century":
1.) The composer putting out the best works in 1955.
2.) The greatest 20th century composer still alive in 1955 (whose best works may have all been written in the past).
I think salzo's perhaps reading it as #1, while Columbia Records and everybody else is reading it as #2.
Both interpretations are disputable, of course, but #1 is a lot more disputable than #2.
Much as I hate to bestow a title like "the greatest" on somebody, though, it's really hard to look past the fact that much of 20th century music consisted of the development of ideas that originated with Stravinsky (mostly in the Rite of Spring). I really can't think of a 20th century composer with more influence than Stravinsky--and aside from Schoenberg, who apparently hated Stravinsky, it's really hard to think of great 20th century composers who weren't somehow influenced by Stravinsky. I can see why the Columbia Records people might say he was the greatest living composer (even if he hadn't had a recording contract with them).
By the way, I just want to make it clear that if you (and by "you" I mean anybody reading) don't like Stravinsky or don't consider him to be great, that's OK--you won't hurt my feelings. But it does mean you have a very different view than I do about something--whether that be music or the nature of "greatness" or what-have-you. So I would be interested in knowing why you feel the way you do--maybe you know something I don't or have experienced something I haven't.
So I'm still curious to know who's on salzo's list and why. It might make for interesting conversation.
Perhaps the fact that he hasn't responded yet is his way of saying he likes John Cage better than Stravinsky. 
Post Edited (2009-12-01 21:08)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: salzo
Date: 2009-12-01 17:10
The way I read "the greatest living composer of the 20th century", is who was the greatest composer alive at the time the comment was made. I did not realize it when i viewed the footage, that the year the comment was made was 1955.
I do not like using the term "the greatest" but if i was to use such a term, I would have to consider their influence, and more than anything else, their complete catalog of works. He was certainly influential, but personally I think the only way he could be considered "the greatest" was if he had died after Le Sacre de printemps. THose are amazing pieces, and truly influenced his contemporaries, but can one really say that what he did after Le Sacre was all that influential? Did he do anything that was innovative after Le Sacre? not really-matter of fact he had a large period where he turned his attention to serialism, following Schoenberg. Certainly a good composer-dont think I would give him the label of 'the greatest' in 1955. I guess if I had to pick "the greatest alive" in 1955, it would be Shostakovich. Very influential, very innovative,very prolific, and the guy didnt write too many pieces that would not qualify as ass kicking music. Can you say that of Stravinsky? I dont think so, their is a lot of filler in that catalog.
Even if we were to consider Stravinskys contemporaries, during his most creative period (lets say, til 1940), i can think of several composers who I would place on a higher pedestal. Debussy, Ravel, Strauss, Prokofiev, Schoenberg, Puccini, Messiaen, BARTOK (if I was forced to, I would personally consider him 'the greatest" of that period). These guys wrote A LOT of music, and A LOT of great music. I just cant put Stravinsky on the same list as those composers(well I guess I could, but he would be at the bottom).
Post Edited (2009-12-01 17:14)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2009-12-01 17:43
I think I've read enough of John Moses' posts to know that his intentions are to provide something interesting that many of us may not be aware of. I appreciate his posts and cringe when some posters just stir up controversey about some small insignificant point. How anyone could have watched the video without knowing it was back in the '50s is beyond me. And, by the way Puccini had been laid to rest long before 1955. To be able to see videos of any well respected musician/composer from back then is a pleasure. Thanks John....many of us appreciate your efforts.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: salzo
Date: 2009-12-01 17:49
The sensitivity of some people around here amazes me. I dont see how anyone could view a little "controversy" as offensive to the original poster of this thread-but go figure.
BobD-Here is a tissue for your issues.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mrn
Date: 2009-12-01 20:39
salzo wrote:
Quote:
He was certainly influential, but personally I think the only way he could be considered "the greatest" was if he had died after Le Sacre de printemps. THose are amazing pieces, and truly influenced his contemporaries, but can one really say that what he did after Le Sacre was all that influential? Did he do anything that was innovative after Le Sacre?
You bet. Le Sacre was part of what music historians call his "Russian period," in which Stravinsky's music evolved from a late-romantic style into something his own, which was highly innovative for classical music, but which drew heavily on ideas from Russian folk music (such as many of the offbeat rhythms you hear in Sacre). Bartok did similar sorts of things in his music.
Starting around 1920, Stravinsky began to forge a new style based on aesthetic ideals of the classical and baroque eras but with more modern ideas regarding harmony, orchestration, and rhythm. This style came to be known as neoclassicism. I'm not sure which is considered Stravinsky's first neoclassical work, but his "Symphonies of Wind Instruments" is certainly one the first. Stravinsky wrote a number of excellent pieces in this neo-classical style. Some of my personal favorites include his Symphony of Psalms, Symphony in C, and his Violin Concerto (of these, the Symphony of Psalms is probably the most important).
Stravinsky's neoclassical compositions were VERY influential, as many other composers began to adopt a similar style, including Prokofiev, Copland, Hindemith, Poulenc, Milhaud, and others. In some composers' works, the neoclassical Stravinsky's influence is quite apparent. For instance, there are parts of Orff's Carmina Burana (particularly some piano ostinatos) that sound like they were ripped right from the score of Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms. Poulenc's Gloria also unabashedly steals from Stravinsky--in fact, one might even interpret his Gloria as a sort of parody of Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms (with Poulenc, everything's a joke, even sacred music). Copland works like Quiet City and the opening to Billy the Kid have noticeable similarities to the kind of pandiatonic contrapuntal wind writing in Symphonies of Wind Instruments.
In fact, all of Nadia Boulanger's composition students (Copland included) were well-versed in Stravinsky's neoclassical style, because Boulanger (in the words of one writer) "preached the gospel of Stravinsky" to them. So Stravinsky not only had followers; he had evangelists, too.
It's true that in later years (starting about the mid 1950s) Stravinsky began to write works in a serial style (as Copland did) with the encouragement of his friend and assistant, Robert Craft. Stravinsky was never a strict serialist, though. And while his serial compositions weren't necessarily HIS best work, I find them much more listenable than most other serial works--they still sound like Stravinsky, even if they do use tone rows. Serialism isn't really a style, anyway--it's just a technique (after all, a tone row is nothing more than a rhythmless motive). Heck, if Paul Simon can write hit songs with 12-tone rows, they can't be all bad! 
By the way, all those composers you named died before 1955, with the exception of Messaien.
I like Shostakovich a lot, too. Shostakovich is reported to have found much inspiration in Stravinsky's music (especially Symphony of Psalms), although their personal dealings with one another were quite strained. Stravinsky did not have the same admiration for Shostakovich that Shostakovich had for Stravinsky, apparently.
Post Edited (2009-12-01 21:22)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2009-12-01 21:55
Don't need no tissue, Sal, here's a Pamper for your damper.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2009-12-02 03:19
Sorry Folks, and thanks for your kind words Bob, but my simple post was just meant to be seen as a spot from the past.
I, as many of you, have done a number of "dates", but none as far back as 1955! So I found it interesting to see many of the session players I know, as young men, and a very animated and interesting Stravinsky. I have played many of his pieces, but none with the man himself.
I find most of Stravinsky's music fascinating, beautiful, and often difficult to perform. But mostly, I wanted all of you to enjoy seeing him work at a recording session with some of 1955's best studio musicians from NYC. A rare glimpse at a composer at work with musicians who could make it come alive at that very moment in time...fascinating!
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mrn
Date: 2009-12-02 15:43
John J. Moses wrote:
> Sorry Folks, and thanks for your kind words Bob, but my simple
> post was just meant to be seen as a spot from the past.
No need to apologize...keep the posts coming! This was great!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2009-12-02 16:40
Loved seeing the video of my old friend Bob Nagel playing trumpet -- actually "cornet a pistons" in the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-12-03 01:32
No wonder he's not the greatest living composer, he must have died from smoking so much. By the way, that's the fastest I've ever heard the Devils Dance near the end, what a tempo. ESP
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
