 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-11-20 18:47
Here's an excellent article about being late as it is practiced nowadays, even by performers and music students.
http://chronicle.com/article/Sorry-Im-Late/49148/
(Thanks to Michelle Gingras for pointing to this.)
B.
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2009-11-21 12:44
This is enlightening about how different cultures view lateness. However, when it's a group effort that's happening, like a concert, there are very few legitimate excuses to be late because the group depends on each individual.
When our large family started coming along we realized that the only way to be on time for anything was to aim at leaving early. We added a 15 minute cushion to our schedule. So if we HAD to leave the driveway at 6:30, we'd aim to have the kids and ourselves ready to walk out the door by 6:15. Most of the time things went wrong - a diaper change, shoes were lost, etc. But for the most part it worked well.
After managing a large family, when I have to be somewhere I still plan to be early by several minutes. Anything that must be taken with me is placed by the door the night before, or early in the day. That makes it easy because I don't have to remember much of anything at the last minute! I just grab the bag and run. The answering machine can take the last minute phone call that comes in. Then the inevitable happens, and I'm not sweating.
And yes, in spite of that I'm still late sometimes.... These bones sometimes have a hard time moving fast.
One of my relatives was in the military, and even now he makes it his business to be sure the rest of us are ready to go BEFORE it's time to go. What a pain! He makes us feel as if we're still children and haven't had to manage a family of our own. And he wonders why people tend to avoid him. There really are more important things in life than being on time for absolutely everything! There's got to be a balance.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-11-21 13:14
"If you're on time you're already 5 minutes late", J.P.S.
Bob Draznik
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2009-11-21 13:55
-- " and even now he makes it his business to be sure the rest of us are ready to go BEFORE it's time to go. What a pain! " --
Hmm, I think I can see his point of view. I drive my kids to the school bus stop every morning and after years of feeling my blood pressure rise, steam whistling out of my ears, chasing the bus to the next stop etc I decided enough was enough.
Now we leave approx 5 minutes before we have to. They moan and gripe about it, but putting up with this is nothing compared to the stress caused by trying to 'time it just right'.
In the UK, we used to drive down to France every year and the only way I could be sure of not missing the ferry was to first subtract 30 minutes off the time I told my wife we had to leave. Yep, she was always 30 minutes late, so it worked out quite well!
Here in Italy, we jokingly enquire about meetings if the time will be 'Central European' or 'Italian time'. Meetings in international organisations are great places for observing different cultural approaches to punctuality. The closer to the Med, the later they are.
The first few times I went to band practice here, I rushed in ready to apologise for being slightly late only to be met with bemused smiles from the few people that had arrived. I don't think I've ever played in a concert that didn't start at least 15 minutes late.
Have I got used to it by now? No!
Steve
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2009-11-21 14:44
It's not that he's a pain because of wanting to be early. It's a real irritation that after all these years, HE'S the one who thinks he has to tell other people, even if they're already prepared to walk out the door. We feel disrespected, like we're incapable of doing our own planning. I think there are more important things to be concerned about, like respecting others abilities to manage, and loving his family. We'd appreciate hearing more positive words. His children are still, as grown adults with their own families, experiencing nervous anxiety even if they're sitting in the waiting room at the doctor's office. They jump and run when the doctor calls them in. That's not even healthy.
Yes, it's preferable and often necessary to be early. But if that can be accomplished with good humour, without screaming and stressing yourself or others to exhaustion, that's called good time management.
"Planning ahead" also comes to mind. This is especially useful with children, since the emotional strain takes a toll on them into adulthood... I speak from experience and wish we'd done some things differently.
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Author: marcia
Date: 2009-11-21 17:24
The nature of my job (recovery room nurse) is such that some cannot leave to go home till the "next shift" has arrived and can take over. I have worked with people who were habitually late. Not just once in a while, but almost every day. I found this irritating in the extreme, discourteous, unprofessional.....and many other such words.
I appreciate conductors who will start a rehearsal on time, regardless of the number of empty chairs. Hopefully those who arrive after the start of the first piece will make the effort to be on time in future. If rehearsal is delayed till the latecomers have trickled in, then time is wasted for all those who have made the effort to be punctual.
While I agree there are legitimate reasons for occasional tardiness, doing it habitually is inexcusable.
This is one of my pet peeves......in case it wasn't obvious. 
Okay, I'm off the soap box.
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Author: kathryn777
Date: 2009-11-21 17:41
Band director's favorite line :
Early is on time, on time is late, late is you're dead
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Author: MondeLuna
Date: 2009-11-22 17:08
My HS band director always used to tell us: To be early is to be on time. To be on time is to be late. To be late is unthinkable. Not only did it work for me in HS I still have his voice in my head today reminding me to be early. =)
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-11-23 15:56
Great article, bmcgar.
My own favourite is when people 'just' have to do something before they go somewhere. Have you ever noticed that if you 'just' do something, it takes no time? :-P
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-11-23 19:23
Cocoanuts:
To improve efficiency at the hotel, Groucho entones,"If a guest asks for a three minute egg, give him a two minute egg. If a guest asks for a two minute egg, give him a one minute egg. And if a guest wants a one minute egg, give him a chicken and have him work it out for himself."
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-11-23 21:24
The most stressful part of my job, playing in the Baltimore Symphony, is driving to work. I hate to be late so my philosophy is better to be a half hour early than one minute late. When you're the only one playing your instrument you have to be ready to go when they give the "On Stage" call, five minutes before the downbeat. I make it a point to get to rehearsal a half hour early and concerts 45 minutes early so if I run into traffic I have time to get there. It's rare for someone in our orchestra is late but of course sometimes there's a major traffic problem and it's unavoidable. The only times I've ever been late were during a major snow storm and usually still got there before 3/4 of the orchestra. I even "trained" my wife to be ready to leave on time when she joins me for a concert. I hate the thought of ever being late. Everyone should feel the same. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-11-23 21:35
Ed Palanker wrote:
> The most stressful part of my job, playing in the Baltimore
> Symphony, is driving to work.
Must be nice ...
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-11-23 23:09
I've been 4 times since 2002(every other year) to a wind marching band festival with my band to Bad Orb in Germany(1 hour drive to north from Frankfurt) and there we where soon taught that it was as impolite to be 5 min before the schedule to our rehearsal room(a house were all our stuff was kept) as being 5 min too late,pünktlich was the only thing to go.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-11-24 01:55
Well Mark, I handle stress very well on the job, that's why I've been here for 47 years, 48 counting my 1st job, and counting. But when I get into a traffic jam and have to be at a concert, that's real stress. I learned a long time ago that one way to help eliminate stress as a musician is to always be as prepared as possible when you show up on the job. It's getting to the job that's stressful, sometimes. Fortunately most of the time it's easy sailing, driving actually, to get to the concert hall, or bus when we go on run outs. ESP
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-11-24 11:23
My mother used to say, of a sister: "She'd be late for her funeral." Mom also said that sister had "dishwater diarrhea" because she always had to use the bathroom when it was time to do the dishes.
But...requiring people to be precisely "on time" is a control freak tactic.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2009-11-24 13:04
I kind of go along with Ed's thoughts on being well-prepared. This goes for other aspects of music-making as well. I vividly remember a fellow student when I was at university who was not that great a performer anyway. Come the day of her end of year recital she turns up practically at the time she was due to perform without the piano part of her main piece which she had left on the music stand at home. I felt for her as she collapsed into tears but, for an important performance of any kind, the playing may be difficult enough but anyone can check and double check that they have all the music/reeds/stands etc that they need.
On the other hand - guess who hadn't check her emails for a couple of days and turned up at the wrong rehearsal venue last night (lol)!
Vanessa.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-11-24 13:49
I played in an Orchestra that was about 40 miles away - I would always leave a full hour earlier than I had to as never knew what traffic would be like as well as if there were any car problems (flat, etc) I would probably be ok.
Though one Orch. that I subbed in (Harrisburgh Sym) would put the subs up in a hotel and had a shuttle - that was nice.
Not having enough warmup time is something I wouldn't consider.
I have my students come 5 minutes early to set up so that there is no down time, and if they show up @ their actual lesson time, I let them know that they are late.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-11-24 15:50
An observation:
Our community band usually starts around 15 minutes late. This is because we try not to start until most people are there. Often, people take offence at arriving on time only to sit around for 15 minutes, and instead of sitting around they choose to arrive 15 minutes late. Which means that we usually start around 15 minutes late...!
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Author: Wes
Date: 2009-11-24 17:28
One player I see frequently is almost always late to any affair but will sometimes show up at a concert on time. He is an "oboe holder" and his lateness is tolerated because of this. During breaks and afterwards, he acts as if he is running for office, shaking everyone's hands, smiling and making small talk. This is symptomatic of a person with suppressed anger, I've heard.
As a result, I try not to be in groups that he is active in as I feel that he wastes time of a lot of other people and always creates a disturbance when he enters 20 minutes late. After sitting down, he often gets up and slowly strolls out to get water for his reeds, which he drinks after the rehearsal. Conductors challenge him when they first encounter it but later just endure it. He is so charming but his lateness is a pain. There seems to be no way to counter this.
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Author: chris moffatt
Date: 2009-11-25 12:36
Here in Richmond, VA it is the audiences who show up late. It still amazes, and annoys me that the theaters will still be seating people 10 minutes after the advertised start time and will even seat extra-latecomers after the performance has started. I put it down to basic rudeness of the audiences and ignorance on the part of provincial opera house and concert theater managements. Having sat out Act 1 of the Nutcracker at the Festival Hall 50 years ago because I was 2 minutes late I've made a point of getting to the hall ahead of time ever since. As for rehearsals and performances - being ahead of time is a must.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-11-30 12:59
Chris,
Here in Blacksburg, it's 15 minutes for audiences. Those who notice it call it "Blacksburg time."
Performers here aren't usually late, but they sure do cut it close! In a concert last month, the soloist was still putting her instrument together (in front of the audience, no less) as she was being introduced.
Just more examples of the "me" generation: little sense of responsibility to performers or audiences.
B.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-11-30 13:31
In "Hawaii time" classes always started on time, but school events always started about 10-15mintues late. For any personal appointment, people were usually *at least* 15 minutes late.
I can tell you that it is a hard habit to shake when you move to a more prompt place in the world.
-
A friend of mine did some volunteering as a nurse in Africa for a year and she said that people often came for their medical appointments a few hours late... or the next day.
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Author: DixieSax
Date: 2009-11-30 16:54
It's quite simple. In my group, if you are late without a reasonable reason, we don't ask you back.
I wouldn't expect to be treated any differently.
I don't think people learn proper respect for others any more, and that starts with having enough respect for the others in your ensemble (or in the ensemble you are going to listen to) to actually show up on time.
If you are early you are on time, if you are on time you are late, and if you are late, you're dead seems like a good mantra to me.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-11-30 17:04
In my marching band group which is a amateur hobby group if you are late nothing is said only the conductor ask sometimes the whole group to be on time. If you are late and haven't showed up for some time your are welcomed. Simply as this. Otherwise people don't want to show up.
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Author: marcia
Date: 2009-11-30 17:36
>One player I see frequently is almost always late to any affair but will >sometimes show up at a concert on time. He is an "oboe holder" and his >lateness is tolerated because of this.
If I were (was?) running that show I'd be looking for a new oboist. His behaviour is inexcusable, oboist or not. They may be more in demand than we clarinetists, but they are not indespensible. They CAN be replaced, and methinks he should be.
>If you are early you are on time, if you are on time you are late, and if you >are late, you're dead seems like a good mantra to me.
I would agree with that statement.
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