 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Chris J
Date: 2009-11-21 04:59
Forgive me, the instrument in question is an oboe, but there is more footfall on this BB than the oboe one (where this question is also posted).
The instrument is being overhauled. Below is an email I just received from the repairer.
Any general opinions regarding best action to take? I have blanked out the charges as I do not want to distract from the consequences and wisdom of the various options. I have asked if there is a fourth option of blasting doing the hard work, and then sanding for a finish.
Many thanks for your considerations
Chris
"Stripped your oboe yesterday and started the cleaning process, I have found that someone in their wisdom has decided to lacquer the body of the oboe, this is not an advisable process as it does not allow the wood to expand and contract naturally, it also dries the surface and makes it more prone to cracking when being played
Option 1, happy to leave it if you wish and simply repad
Option 2, sand the lacquer of the instrument until clean wood is obtained
and then start oiling process, very time consuming, my charge $x
Option 3, Plastic media blast the lacquer off, my charge $x, media is expensive $1200 per drum and its blast to waste, no recycling of the media.
In the past most of my clients have gone with the media blast, this removes
all traces of lacquer and opens the pores of the wood up, it does not damage the wood in any way. However it does leave the surface texture open, there is no mistaking that it is wood, when you sand an instrument the fine sanded particles are redeposited back into the wood grain giving the smooth gloss style finish. If you would like I can do a test media blast piece up for you to show what the end result looks like."
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-11-21 14:00
It also seems odd to me that someone other than the manufacturer took the time and money to lacquer an oboe. That would have been very costly. Why was this done.....or even, is the instrument REALLY lacquered, or is this repair person just saying that it is.
Just guessing, but the "media blast" sounds like some sort of sandblasting with plastic microspheres.Is this going to be done to the bore? I hope not.
It also seems that you are paying for an entire drum of the "media," and that there might be a considerable amount left over. (Ques: so if other oboes had the same treatment, where did their leftover media go?).
Wouldnt a simple rub with an gentle organic lacquer solvent (Ex-Lacqs!) and some 000000 steel wool accomplish the same thing?
Can you take this horn to another repair shop for a second opinion??
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
Post Edited (2009-11-21 21:24)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gary Foss
Date: 2009-11-21 18:02
Besides clarinet playing I have had jobs in high end wood finishing for upscale houses. My experience with media blasting is that it gives a great look to the wood, as it brings out the grain. Meaning the surface is left uneven as softer wood comes off and the denser parts stay. While this looks great as a finish, I don't think it would be desirable for an instrument. Granted there are differing types of media, but I feel it is to agressive of a technique for instruments. I have refinished antiques profesionally and have used immersion tubs to strip off old finish, but again for instruments, I would worry about the bore being impacted. I think hand application of laquer thiner combined with hand sanding, although time consuming would be the safest course.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-11-21 19:07
I rebuilt an old German 6-key piccolo for EuGeneSee a few years back and he specified to have the lacquer removed from the body joint and tuning barrel (the headjoint was ebonite).
While the pillars and other metal parts were sent off for silver plating, I stripped the lacquer by mounting the joints in the lathe and used abrasive paper (800 and 1200) to clean it all off and smooth down the wood, and then a final polish by machine buffing brought up the finish to a deep shine that the light could shine through the grain rather than the original gloss lacquer finish that was just a surface shine without any depth.
Removing the lacquer also showed up the imperfections in the wood. There was a patch of sapwood on the barrel and the body joint had a long crack by the RH toneholes that had to be filled in - the extent of the crack was made clear once the lacquer had been removed, so paints and lacquers will sometimes hide some serious flaws.
The main reason for lacquering and staining timber is to make for a uniform finish even though the wood is mismatched or has some patches of pale or darker colour in it.
Grenadilla is variable from piece to piece, but other exotic timbers such as rosewood, kingwood and cocobolo are more difficult to match up grain and colour from one joint to the next - at best a similar colour and grain pattern can be found, but more often joints will never match as no two pieces of wood are identical.
Sometimes you get clarinets with grenadilla barrels and joints, but have a rosewood bell that's been lacquered to match the grenadilla - a lot of old Boosey&Co. clarinets are made like this, and also a lot of older German clarinets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris J
Date: 2009-11-21 22:08
Alseg
The media blast quote was for actually for very little money - just $55 AUD. My concern was about the effect of such a procedure on the tone holes, for example, and what the finish would be like. I had not heard of such a treatment before.
The hand strip was much more expensive.
Chris P, on another thread (on the clarinet BBoard - I widened my search for advice!) suggested that the lacquer would have been put on at the time of manufacture of my German instrument (which could have been as much as 40 years ago)
I am thinking about just leaving it as it is.
Chris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-11-21 22:20
I have seen older clarinets with a form of thin varnish or laquer finish. Over the years it tends to get patchy as where the instrument is handled it wears off but remains in more protected areas.
It never seems to have caused any problem on these clarinets.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2009-11-21 23:08
Some of the Eastern European instruments have an opaque black lacquer finish from the factory which is SOP. This finish is more for aesthetic rather than cosmetic purposes. I have stripped many such clarinets with an organic limolene based lacquer stripper only to find beautiful dark chocolate brown heartwood underneath with no visible flaws, sap wood or checks.
I too believe that wood should have no sealing finish and should be allowed to breathe and naturally exchange moisture.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-11-21 23:39
"My concern was about the effect of such a procedure on the tone holes,"
It is quite possible that tone holes could be microscopically damaged in this process.
The fact that your instrument is an odler German leads me to believe that the paint is there from the manufacturing. I have an old Effer from J. Hammerschmidt that is covered in black lacquer outside and in (yes, the bore).
Also, super expensive Wurlitzer clarinets are covered with paint, too, even the tone holes.
I would say that, unless you really want the "look" of natural wood, just leave it alone- but I am all about function and I couldn't care less about the looks.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2009-11-22 11:44
"when you sand an instrument the fine sanded particles are redeposited back into the wood grain "
To some extent I guess this is true but most wood refinishers then take steps to remove most of those particles, so, in itself is not a valid argument against sanding. I , also, would be concerned about the tone holes. Perhaps this Tech does the "media blast" himself and has wide experience. I would want more info.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris J
Date: 2009-11-22 13:07
The tech indeed does the blasting himself. He has said he did an E11 a couple of weeks ago, and has offered to put me in touch with the owner to see the effect.
My main question, I suppose, was is it necessary for the future safety of the instrument to go to the bother? Given that is is likely to have been played extensively for decades with this factory finish, I will leave it as is and take my chances with the instrument.
Chris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-11-22 13:36
"My main question, I suppose, was is it necessary for the future safety of the instrument to go to the bother?"
There are two opposing but valid answers here.
Omar's Answer 1. "I too believe that wood should have no sealing finish and should be allowed to breathe and naturally exchange moisture."
Or
2. The lacquer helps stabilize the wood and protects it from quick changes in humidity. Since the pores are mostly sealed off, the change from humid to dry air is done much slower and the wood might be less likely to crack.
The truth is that the Germans had been doing this very regularly- only a few recent companies have more natural finishes. Since the oboe has survived this long with the lacquer, there is clearly no danger to it. And what is the point of doing something so expensive to an E11?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2012-07-06 12:24
I've run across this problem on a few older clarinets where there has been an application of linseed oil, lacquer, or whatever. I usually use the finest steel wool and a bit of lacquer thinner and be done with it. In order to make the instrument look uniform the posts need to be removed otherwise there will be some residual around the post areas. Anyway, that's what I would do.
john b
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
