 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Stubby
Date: 2009-11-17 04:12
Hello all. I find the throat notes (G to Bb) on my Prestige bass to be flat.
Do others experience this too?
Has anyone experimented with enlarging or undercutting the relevant tone holes to bring the pitch up?
All suggestions/comments most welcome!
Stubby
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-11-17 05:22
Is this when the neck tunable part is completely closed? The opening of the neck for the best compromise for tuning of the entire instrument also depends a lot on weather. Are you sure the keys open enough? On some new Buffet bass clarinets I've tried some keys on the upper joint weren't opening enough (but mostly stack keys, not throat note keys). Flat throat notes wasn't a problem on bass clarinets of this model that I've tried (approx 15 of them) except sometimes the Bb is slightly flatter than the others.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2009-11-17 05:37
The new Buffet 1193 that I recently purchased does not have a throat note problem. Perhaps, again, the pads are not adjusted properly. Good luck!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-11-17 07:05
The toneholes are fairly extensively countersunk on my Prestige bass (from 2000) and I've never had any problem with the throat notes being flat - I have the crook tuning slide pulled out by 4mm to put it in tune with itself.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-11-17 07:15
>> I have the crook tuning slide pulled out by 4mm to put it in tune with itself. <<
Do you play pretty much always in the same conditions and same tuning? I have the neck anywhere from completley closed to sometimes almost 1cm open, depending on tuning (440/441/442) and weather or conditions in the hall/room.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-11-17 07:38
I find the tuning very easy and forgiving on my bass, so haven't had to move the tuning slide at all when playing in different places. I leave it set at being pulled out by 4mm and that seems to be the best position for it. I tend to play on the sharp side on clarinet anyway.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: William
Date: 2009-11-17 16:12
No probs with my Prestige throats tones either--and I agree with Chris regarding the tuning--except for the playing on the "sharp side" part, that is.......my two cents worth.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-11-18 01:10
Make sure those pads are opening wide enough, that could make them sound flat if they are not. It could also be that your tuning note is sharp which will in turn make those throat notes sound flat. Tune to your throat tone notes and see how the break notes tune. You can alway pull out your middle joint to bring the pitch down on the break notes or there are other ways if that's the case. I always tune to my high B, not the break or low B. Check my website on my bass clarinet page, I might have something about that in one of my articles. ESP
http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Blake Arrington
Date: 2009-11-18 21:42
Send Francois or Bruce Marking a note. You can find their email on the Buffet website. You might try some different neck attachments (the upper portion that connects to the mouthpiece, not the entire neck). I did this after speaking with Lawrie Bloom about a similar issue. He was 100% right. I tried 3 and all made a huge difference in G-Bb tuning.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-11-18 22:15
Do they make an aftrmarket tuning section with a shallower angle?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-11-19 04:48
>> Do they make an aftrmarket tuning section with a shallower angle? <<
Supposedly they used to, I don't know now. I tried to get one after I was told they should have this. Actually a new neck, not just the moutpiece side section.
Two local distributers/dealers didn't help. I then tried a dealer in USA. The person from Buffet said they have this! I actually ordered the neck. Once it arrived to the dealer, he told me it is not less angled and is the same as the regular Buffet neck.
I then tried another dealer in USA who from what I remember eventually managed to find it was only special order. I agreed but it seemed he never got a real answer from Buffet how/when/if it was really possible to do. I think I waited a few months. Eventually I gave up.
Some places can make a new section. I think Gloger in Holland, Morrie Backun in Canada. I'm sure there are others.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-11-19 07:14
And the end section with a water key would be nice.
They used to have them on the older model Prestige bass according to the catalogue, and that would save a lot of hassle instead of having to take the tuning bit off to tip the water out periodically (easier doing that than taking the whole crook and mouthpiece off to tip out the water, though a water key would be much better).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-11-19 07:55
I've tried the buffet model with water key. Other than the water key the new ones have a lot of improvements. BTW I don't remove anything to tip the water out I just move the entire instrument. I think it is not a huge problem to add a water key. I considered adding it to my bass neck just never got to it yet. Have to find a water key to work in the correct angle though. Allied has some examples in their catalogue that seems would work, and they also have something called the Amado water key which might be better because I've seen too often regular water key springs break suddenly.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-11-19 08:26
Is the Amado water key the piston one?
The ones I've seen of this piston design aren't airtight unless the piston is oiled or is already waterlogged, so I don't think they're a good idea on anything.
Just did some searching and found that it is the piston type I thought it was: http://www.thebandroom.biz/01_item_action.php?id=332
There's also this design (scroll down the page): http://www.deniswedgwood.com/saturn.htm
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2009-11-19 08:33)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-11-19 12:30
Oh ok I'm not familair with it. It just looked like the spring is a lot less likely to break, but sounds like it has other disadvantage which is worse.
Do you have experience with the Saturn water key? Do you know if it can leak too?
So maybe best to go with a regular water key, and possibly have some spare springs in the case... and possibly a rubber band for emergincies. I think one time I installed both a flat spring and a water key spring for a bari sax water key just to be safe if one fails.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-11-19 13:14
With the Amado water key, you need to remove the circlip to take it apart - which is fine if you have the correct tools for the purpose. And it's a tiny circlip at that, so most likely a special set of circlip pliers will need to be found, or existing ones made or adapted just for these.
This is the first time I've ever seen the Saturn one - it looks promising as the ball bearing should seal the hole perfectly every time, and it's a very tidy and compact design.
With traditional water keys I prefer to use a phosphor bronze or stainless steel spring (coil or flat) as they obviously won't rust like blue steel ones do considering what they have to endure.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2009-11-19 13:18)
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