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 need explanation
Author: Rapidcif 
Date:   2009-11-14 22:00

ok hey everybody. I am a poor bad kid at explaining things and have confused my mom to death.(who doesn't know anything about clarinet.)

What happened is, i bought a B-45 two months ago for 70 BUCKS and now that i have also upgraded my reed strength to 4-4.5, i've been recommended to get a more closed mouthpiece and i want to try a bunch.

So what my mom's confused about is(mom doesn't like to spend money), i just bought an $70 mouthpiece, and now i want to spend a bunch of money ordering from WWBW to try mouthpieces.

My mom finds it a hastle to return, (local music stores don't have a large stock, and the two hour drive to Muncy Winds is too long for my mom), and once i picked out the one i liked, i'd have wasted the $70 she spent two months ago on the B-45, and on top of that spending more money for my new MP. (and especially because one of the mouthpieces i want to try is a Fobes-San Francisco). I know it's important to save money, but in finding the right mouthpiece it's inevitable you have to spend money, and i don't know of a player who the first mouthpiece they ever bought was their last.

It's actually pretty simple, but i am an awkward explainer(if you know me in real life you'd know this haha) and my mom wants a logical explanation to unconfuse her. And i don't have a private teacher.

Thx alot.



Post Edited (2009-11-14 22:02)

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 Re: need explanation
Author: EEBaum 
Date:   2009-11-14 22:13

Spend the next $70 on a couple lessons.

-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com

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 Re: need explanation
Author: FDF 
Date:   2009-11-14 22:20

Listen to Mom.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: Eddydavik 
Date:   2009-11-14 22:22

Do you really need to be using 4-4.5 strength reeds? I think a better idea would be to spend the money on reeds and find a brand/strength that will match your B-45... it would be a good money saving technique and your mom would be more acceptable to that I would think.

Edward Escobar
Suita City Wind Ensemble

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 Re: need explanation
Author: Rapidcif 
Date:   2009-11-14 22:28

1. I can't get lessons

2. 4-4.5 strength reeds are truly the right strength for me. i used to use 3.5's, but now when i play them they are far too soft, and i just spent $100 on 4 boxes of size 4-4.5 reeds.


lol.



Post Edited (2009-11-14 22:29)

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 Re: need explanation
Author: clarinetguy 2017
Date:   2009-11-14 22:38

For a long time, the standard advice passed on by many private teachers and band directors was, "Get a Vandoren B-45." There are still teachers who dispense this advice, but perhaps? not as many.

I had a teacher when I was in grad school who told me to get a B-45. It's a good mouthpiece and I used it for a few years with decent results, but I soon got to the point where I just couldn't get it to do what I wanted. I've since moved on to other mouthpieces.

Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think part of your problem might be that you're using reeds that are too hard for the B-45. You might have more success if you try reeds in the 3 to 3 1/2 range. Experiment a little, and you might find a combination that you like. Not all mouthpieces are designed for 4 to 4 1/2 reeds.

If you just can't get this mouthpiece to do what you want, you might try telling your mom that you made a mistake. Tell her it was a mistake to buy a mouthpiece without trying it first. Perhaps you can sell it to someone else in your band or on that big auction site. Vandoren has some other great mouthpieces that are reasonable--you might want to try the M-13, the M-13 Lyre, the M-15 (my favorite), or the M-30. You could tell your mom that you'll earn some money to pay her back.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: stevensfo 
Date:   2009-11-14 22:50

-- "Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think part of your problem might be that you're using reeds that are too hard for the B-45." --

The B45 is an open tip MP and works best with soft reeds. It's a good MP but also a terrible MP for beginners.

I found this out for myself and then got it all confirmed for me on this forum about 5 years ago.

The only time I've used '4' reeds, I have to spend time adjusting them for my M15. The idea of using such strong reeds on a B45 is just plain ridiculous!


Steve

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 Re: need explanation
Author: Mark Charette 
Date:   2009-11-14 22:51

clarinetguy wrote:

>

I'll second what clarinetguy says. You so far have spent $170 by your own admission, and that would have bought 4 or more lessons.

I'd be furious.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: clarinetguy 2017
Date:   2009-11-14 22:55

Rapidcif, you posted your response just before I posted mine. I'm wondering who it was that told you to get another mouthpiece. Is this person really an expert? Are you getting good results with your 4 to 4 1/2 reeds and the B-45? Are you satisfied with the sound you're getting? Is it a comfortable setup? If it is, I see absolutely no reason to change it.

I've been a clarinet player for a long time, and I'll let you in on a little secret. Every clarinet player is an "expert," and every one is full of advice about the equipment you should buy. You'll always meet someone who will tell you that what you have isn't good enough or right for you. If you listen to everyone, you'll go broke! If you were playing on a cheap plastic mouthpiece and Rico #2 reeds I'd advise upgrading, but otherwise don't be quick to change your equipment unless there is really a good reason to do it.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: Rapidcif 
Date:   2009-11-14 23:06





Post Edited (2009-11-14 23:07)

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 Re: need explanation
Author: weberfan 
Date:   2009-11-14 23:11

mark and clarinetguy beat me to it, but at the risk of piling on, a few suggestions.

It appears that for several weeks, at least, you've been relying on the bulletin board to answer all your questions about mouthpieces, clarinets, reeds, retail outlets, and any number of options involving each of these things.

The answers have been smart and helpful and heartfelt, as is the custom here. There are so many experienced players, and such a wealth of information.

But Mark got right to the point. You spent $170 of your mom's money on a mouthpiece and reeds that don't work together. And as clarinetguy asked, in essence, "On whose authority?" Nobody on this bulletin board, nobody, can tell you precisely what you need to buy at a store. But they have told you what you really need: smart personal instruction. And you'll need that before you can weigh the varied advice you'll get here...all of it informed and well meaning.

But, geez, unless you've been playing for a while and know what you're doing, why spend $100 on reeds? Do you go through 40 reeds that fast?

I play V12 3.5's and I've been play-testing the Rico Reserve Classic 3.5's. I bought ONE box. I can afford to buy lots more, but I don't.

And saying you can't play softer reeds with the B45 is plain wrong. It's a given that you need to match the reed to the mouthpiece.

I fear that at a tender age you've come down with Gear Acquisition Syndrome on someone else's tab: your mom's.

Get a few lessons. Get some competent advice locally. You'll be so glad you did, and so will your mom.



Post Edited (2009-11-14 23:32)

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 Re: need explanation
Author: Rapidcif 
Date:   2009-11-14 23:17

ok im sorry guys. I'm bad at explaining. I DONT use 4-4.5 reeds with my B-45. I am judging the results i get off my B-45 with size 3 reeds.

I got the B-45 because it was recommended by my Band Director and used size 3 reeds with it. I was then told my sound was too bright, and told to upgrade the reed strength. I then bought 4 boxes of size 4-4.5 reeds because they were all different brands and i wanted to see which one i liked best, but don't use them with the B-45. I have also purchased a purfessional horn since then.



Post Edited (2009-11-14 23:19)

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 Re: need explanation
Author: JJAlbrecht 
Date:   2009-11-14 23:18

First off, why did you buy the B45? Who gave you the advice to buy one of them? How long have you been playing?

Why is taking even a few lessons out of the question? It sounds like you really don't know what you want in a mouthpiece, and yet you're willing to play the try and see game with some expensive mouthpieces. I never spent anywhere near the price of a Fobes San Francisco until some time in the past 4-5 years, and I just turned 50. I've been playing clarinet since I was eight, by the way. You sound like you haven't hit eighteen yet. If you aren't taking lessons, what makes you think that a: the problem is in your mouthpiece? or b: that a new, more expensive one will cure the problems?

My daughter started taking lessons with a member of the Detroit Symphony 4 1/2 years ago. Not until they had been together for a number of months did the teacher even begin trying new styles of mouthpieces for her. He said she had to get all the *other* fundamentals down right first, or she wold be getting the wrong mouthpiece. She had been taking lessons 4 years prior to switching to him, and she made it all that way (and sounded darned good) playing an Evette Master Model and an old Selmer HS* mouthpiece. They tried out DOZENS of mouthpieces before they found the right one for her at the time: a Vandoren M13. She's still using that one in college at music school.

I don't think the magic cure all for you is a new and more expensive mouthpiece. At least, I don't believe you are quite to the level of finding the one that will suit you best. That's why others are suggesting lessons. And yes, spring for $200 for a new piece would probably be a waste of your mom's money at the present. When you have a few hundred bucks odf your ouw lyying around with nothing better to spend it on, THEN start chasing mouthpieces. I was ready to lay out at least that much for my daughter, if the MP was the right one for her, but just chasing after name brands would not have found the right fit for her.

Another thing: buying a pro horn is something best attempoted with the aid of an instructor, or at least a very experienced clarinetist. I hope you didn't get a case full of problems.

Jeff

“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010

"A drummer is a musician's best friend."


Post Edited (2009-11-14 23:22)

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 Re: need explanation
Author: weberfan 
Date:   2009-11-14 23:22




OK, but I repeat: Get some competent advice locally. If your band director isn't making things clear, keep after him. If he can't make things clear, then get some competent advice elsewhere.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: Mark Charette 
Date:   2009-11-14 23:25

Rapidcif wrote:

> ok im sorry guys. I'm bad at explaining. I DONT use 4-4.5
> reeds with my B-45. I am judging the results i get off my
> B-45 with size 3 reeds.

So you bought 4 boxes of reeds when you're cluelessas to what you might want (like maybe 3.5 even)?

I'd be even more furious. And I'd make damn sure you never got my credit card number again.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: Rapidcif 
Date:   2009-11-14 23:30

Mr. Charette: i was recommended to get 4-4.5 reeds, but not with the B45, instead to find a mouthpiece more accomodated with harder reeds. I find size 3.5 reeds soft as well.



Post Edited (2009-11-14 23:33)

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 Re: need explanation
Author: Mark Charette 
Date:   2009-11-14 23:40

Rapidcif wrote:

> Mr. Charette: i was recommended to get 4-4.5 reeds, but not
> with the B45, instead to find a mouthpiece more accomodated
> with harder reeds. I find size 3.5 reeds soft as well.

By who? The same person who recommended you get a B45? You said you don't have a teacher, so I'm figuring some "innocent bystander".

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 Re: need explanation
Author: Rapidcif 
Date:   2009-11-14 23:42

band director

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 Re: need explanation
Author: Mark Charette 
Date:   2009-11-14 23:43

Rapidcif wrote:

> band director

Hooboy ... and I'm wagering your band director doesn't play clarinet and isn't paying for the "upgrades". I'd be marching into the band director's office, and I'd be furious. Just before I marched into the principal's office.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: Rapidcif 
Date:   2009-11-14 23:44

He plays clarinet but isn't paying for the upgrades.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: tictactux 2017
Date:   2009-11-15 00:04

Okay, we have witnessed a classic "upgrade war" - mouthpiece competing with reeds and vice versa while the director should have said

DO.GET.A.TEACHER.

Said person could have taught you how to play dark, bright, red and blue all on the same mouthpiece and the same reed. Bit of embouchure, bit of oral cavity, and a shitload of sheer determination would have done it.

The sad truth is that the biggest problem sits between the chair and the mouthpiece. I've learned it the expensive way as many others did. Well maybe that's part of the initiation, but you have to face the bitter truth some day:

Practice. Get Taught. Blame it on yourself, not the equipment.

And: it's supposed to be fun, never forget that.

--
Ben

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 Re: need explanation
Author: BartHx 
Date:   2009-11-15 00:09

Why do you need to buy a full box just to try out a different brand or strength of reed? Every music store I deal with is willing to sell a few of each kind so you can get some idea what you want to come back and buy a box of without breaking the bank. It sounds to me like you are trying to play darts with the lights off. There is a chance you could hit the target, but not a very big one. Turn the lights on and get some competent input.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: skygardener 
Date:   2009-11-15 00:18

>"I got the B-45 because it was recommended by my Band Director and used size 3 reeds with it."
The B45 is a brighter mouthpiece by nature. Generally, the Bxx series are all on the bright side.
>"I was then told my sound was too bright, and told to upgrade the reed strength. "
If your band director told you to buy the B45 and then he said that your tone is too bright, then HE is responsible and HE should pay for the new mouthpiece.
Also, you do NOT need hard reeds to play with a dark tone. That is a total myth! If I were to play on a B45, I would be playing on 2.5 or maybe even 2 reeds. Even with soft reeds like that I have no trouble playing soft or loud and I do not lose any response in the high notes.



Post Edited (2009-11-15 07:39)

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 Re: need explanation
Author: Eddydavik 
Date:   2009-11-15 04:15

Rapidcif、it would be in the best interest to seek the advise of a private instructor.

When testing reeds, maybe see if you can purchase them individually... many if not most music stores sell reeds like so... and it's a lot cheaper than wasting 25 bucks on a box you may never use.

There are many of things you can do to adjust the reeds you already have to make them more towards your liking, such as trimming or sanding or the like... but again, you'll want to seek the advise of a private instructor for the know-how.

The advise of your band director right now is not the best being given it seems.

Work with what you have and learn to adjust... and find a private instructor.

Edward Escobar
Suita City Wind Ensemble

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 Re: need explanation
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2009-11-15 06:19

The ONLY reason your sound is harsh or bright is that you are a beginner without an established embouchure and don't yet know what you're doing, and have followed ill advice from someone who doesn't know much more than you do.

Anyone can make a clarinet honk on any mouthpiece with hard reeds, which is exactly what you're doing right now. You need to go RIGHT BACK to the beginning, get a teacher, get real advice and you'll progress from there.

You're trying to run a marathon before you can even crawl.

Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010

The opinions I express are my own.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: bcl1dso 
Date:   2009-11-15 06:42

As mentioned above MANY times, a private teacher definitely needs to get involved in the situation. All the trouble you are going through will, most likely, all go away much quicker then trying to do it on your own.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: Jack Kissinger 
Date:   2009-11-15 07:01

While your band director may play clarinet, it seems to me that, if what you say is an accurate reflection of his recommendations, he doesn't know much about equipment. Otherwise, he would know that the B45 is a resistant mouthpiece and that Vandoren's recommended reed strength is 2.5 - 3 traditional, or 3 - 3.5 V12 or Rue Le Pic. I suppose if you're using Mitchell Luries, you might be able to make a 4 work but, if you're trying, e.g., Vandorens or the higher grade Ricos (which your spending on average $25 per box would tend to suggest), the reeds will probably be too stiff for a B45. I know your director said to try something harder than a 3 and, IMO, simply recommending harder reeds to combat brightness shows a little ignorance on the director's part. But jumping all the way to 4 - 4.5 and buying 4 boxes was not a bright idea on your part, either. (BTW, if brightness is your problem, you probably don't want a Fobes San Francisco.)

I am a little confused by your statement that 4-4.5 strength reeds are truly the right strength for you and that you used to use 3.5's, but now when you play them they are far too soft. How do you know that 4-4.5 strength reeds are truly the right strength for you? They obviously don't work on your B45. On what mouthpiece do they work for you? If you want to play the hard reeds, why don't you use that mouthpiece? On what mouthpiece are 3.5's too soft? Have you tried them on your B45? I also wonder what you mean when you say you've "upgraded" to 4 - 4.5s. I hope you are not making the mistake of believing that harder reeds equate with a higher level player. Beyond beginners, they don't. Also (again IMO) buying a mouthpiece to fit a reed is doing things backwards.

I think it's the band director, not your mom, that needs the explaining. The next time he tells you that your sound is too bright and that you should change your setup to a less resistant mouthpiece and harder reeds, remind him politely that you bought the B45 on his recommendation and tell him you can't afford another mouthpiece right now. Use the reeds with your B45 that you were using when you found the mouthpiece you liked. If you want to use the 4s and 4.5s, use the mouthpiece they work on for you, or go, get yourself some sandpaper, or save up your own money and buy yourself a Fobes Debut.

If there is a decent private teacher in your area and you are serious about the clarinet, some private lessons couldn't hurt. And, if money is the issue, just remember that, particularly at your age, you don't need to take weekly 1-hour lessons. If you can afford 30 minutes every other week, that would be better than what you have now.

Best regards,
jnk

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 Re: need explanation
Author: srattle 
Date:   2009-11-15 09:44

I have to agree with what everyone else said.

If I were you, I would explain to your mom, that your band director has made her and you make some mistakes, and maybe she should go and talk to the director herself to get some explanation, if he's so secure in this concept.

DEFINITELY get a private teacher. It's not even really worth picking up the instrument without a teacher.


There is some major wrong information being given to you.
First, if you're finding 3.5 way to soft on that mouthpiece, at a stage of development than I assume isn't professionally trained, it means you are doing something wrong.
You are most likely biting the reed to death which could make it seem that the reeds are too soft.
The other question is, how long have you been using the same #3 reeds? reeds get softer after time and deteriorate, which could also be something relating to your bright sound.

What you need to know though, is that 9.9 times out of 10, the reed isn't the factor in bright or dark. It's YOU.
Most likely, on a 4.5 reed, you will be even brighter, not because of something inherent in the reed, but because you can't have the muscle strength to control and support the reed.

Brightness and Darkness (which are just words, and imo very silly words) have a lot to do with embouchure, aural cavity, SUPPORT, tongue position, mouthpiece position, direction of air and air speed, and maybe when all of that is working correctly, a little bit with mouthpiece and reed.


If you have a B-45, you are in good hands for a least a few years. Get a teacher, and get some real advise. I'm sure your mom would be MUCH more willing to pay for some real professional help, than throw money away on stuff that's supposed to help you (but wont)

Long post, but this kind of thing makes me angry. Your director and you are wasting your mom's money, rather than putting it towards something really useful. That $170 could have gone towards some great lessons, or a couple of pairs of shoes (which would have been way more useful than a bunch of heavy reeds)

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 Re: need explanation
Author: clarinetguy 2017
Date:   2009-11-15 12:21

A short story:

I have a friend who is a brass player and a band director. Unlike some band directors who say, "You must buy such and such a mouthpiece," this guy is open-minded and willing to listen to advice. If one of his students comes in with a high quality mouthpiece (whatever the brand), he is fine with it. A couple years ago he was concerned because so many of his high school students were playing on cheap plastic mouthpieces. He asked for my recommendations, and I suggested several different Vandoren models. He was able to get them on approval from a local music store, and he asked me to help his students select one. Very interesting! The students really liked the opportunity to try several. I'm not sure that anyone liked the B-45, but several liked the M-15, a few liked the M-30, and there might have been a few who liked the M-13.

This guy has the right idea. He has a great sounding clarinet section, and they usually get straight ones at band festival.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: OldClarinetGuy 
Date:   2009-11-15 17:38

I am not sure what you re doing..

Get a teacher. Get some lessons. Get some direction.

I have taught and am I teaching students who are going and have gone to university music programs, and have played on reeds in strength from 3 to 4.5 with $70 VanDoren and $300 designer mouthpieces using $750 clarinets and $4000 clarinets.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: mrn 
Date:   2009-11-15 20:12

Band directors have to work with lots of students at once, and don't always have the time to spend working with you to fix problems *the right way.* Nothing against band directors--I've known some great ones--but even if they have the expertise, they just don't have the time to give you more than "quick fix" sort of advice. Sometimes that works fine; other times it doesn't. Consequently, you should take any advice your director gives about doing something with your equipment with a grain of salt--even if he plays clarinet.

This is what I think you need to do:

1.) Find out what the director wants from you *in terms of sound*. He may give you advice about equipment or technique, too. That's OK, but don't go out and do what he asks you to do right away--find out what *results* he's looking for, first. (because--and this is a very important point often reiterated by top players on the BBoard--the results are all that matters)

2.) Get a good private teacher. University clarinet professors usually have good connections and can help you find a good one--give one a call.

3.) Tell your private teacher what *results* your director wants. (and everything else the director said, too)

4.) Do what your private teacher tells you to do. If there's a conflict between what the private teacher tells you to do and what the director said to do, go with what the private teacher says, because it's the private teacher who's going to work with you individually to get the best results.

5.) After that, your director should be happy. If not, at that point your private teacher and the director should have a talk about it. A good director will defer to what the private teacher says if they know a good private teacher is working with you to get the results the director wants.

Just remember that the whole point of all of this is for you to learn to be the best musician you can be. Using particular equipment--even if the director thinks you should use this or that mouthpiece, reed, etc.-- is still only a means to an end. Even making the director happy is only of secondary importance to your own musical development (it is a SCHOOL band, after all).

In that regard, you can't obtain the full educational benefit from band without a private teacher (and the best band directors know this). If you want to play a musical instrument well (and I know you do, otherwise you wouldn't be on this board), individualized instruction of some kind (at least for a time) is a must. So get a private teacher today!! :)

(I might also add that--in my experience, anyway--the main reason to choose one piece of equipment over another is to make your life easier [so you don't have to fight the equipment]. You can't create a dark/bright/good/whatever sound by buying equipment--the equipment only somewhat defines what you CAN do and what amount of effort is required to do it. Actually DOing it is completely up to the player.)



Post Edited (2009-11-15 21:32)

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 Re: need explanation
Author: crampy 
Date:   2009-11-15 22:40

This was an interesting read - got some very useful advice about mouthpieces and reed strength appropriateness, thankyou.

Interesting dynamics: the kid (?is he really a kid or just someone trying to stir everyone) assumes no responsibility for the problem, and many responders sound crabby. I started to feel crabby too. (Makes mental note not to have children).



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 Re: need explanation
Author: Bluesparkle 
Date:   2009-11-16 00:28

Fellow Mom, here.

The B-45 is not a bad mouthpiece if you have a few years' worth of playing under your belt. My high school son plays on one. He uses Vandoren 2.5's or 3's. If he tried a 4 or 4.5 on that thing, he might as well blow through a drinking straw.

It's easy to get in a knot about equipment, to shop for hours online, to spend lots of cash trying to make improvements. There's so much to try out there in so many different combinations that it's nearly impossible to resist. It's exciting, and it's easier to get wrapped up in it if your band director is cheering you on.

Some people can't resist new shoes, some people can't resist the latest techno-gadgets, those of us from clarinetland can't resist all the goodies that promise this or that, and have that "new equipment" look and smell. Going to a music store allows you to hang out with other music equipment addicts. Ordering online makes it seem like a gift is in the mail. It is an obsession of sorts.

It's also easy for those of us who are students or amateurs (I am the latter), to continually try to find the answer in a new or different piece of equipment. Sometimes, the last problem is the equipment set up, and one must look at the body playing the instrument instead. (Stop rolling your eyes at me).

You have a good horn. You have a mouthpiece with a good reputation and was/is popular with the masses. Get some reeds that work with the B-45, and sell your others on that auction site to make some money back. Forget about the notion that harder reeds equals some sort of skill superiority (common with the high school crowd I've found).

For Christmas, ask for a gift certificate to the music store of your choice and experiment on your own dollar. If you are old enough to warrant a professional instrument and cannot be satisfied with anything but a very expensive mouthpiece, then you are certainly old enough to find a way to make some money of your own. Then, when it's your money, you can have all the fun you want with your equipment addiction.

Until then, be proud of the equipment you have, know that it's better than most students get. There will always be something "better" out there until the end of time, but at some point, you must work with what you have. Leave Mom's budget alone. She's got enough worries having to pay the bills, do the laundry, go see your band concerts, sign the permission slips, make sure the family is fed, play taxi all over town, and all those things Moms do.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: ShazamaPajama 
Date:   2009-11-16 06:03

If you need some way of convincing your mum that spending money on shipments back and fourth is a good idea for picking a mouthpiece try to explain to her how even similar models of mouthpieces have discrepancies. tell her its crucial that you try multiple mouthpieces to assure that you dont end up buying a dud.
now, you havent said whether you are spending the money or she is. if she is then i would first try to find a local music store where you can try out mouthpieces. cuz sometimes those trial fees can stack up.
if you are spending the money, it shouldn't be a problem, to me it sounds like a mature choice to order trials first. i mean.. you could be out there smoking meth and selling your body for meth too.. meth is dangerous you know?

...

i dont think this is a problem with a lack of private lessons, but a problem that can hinder progress if he/she were to get lessons.
we NEED to teach him/her how to manipulate his mother effectively so that when his new private lessons teacher decides he/she is ready for a new mouthpiece that he will have the means necessary to milk his mother of all of her available funds.

when i was a kid, i would do extra chores to win some brownie points, then when i needed something.. i would act really depressed until my mum asked what was wrong. i would then tell her a sob story about how i absolutely needed a new bike or i absolutely needed one hundred dollars.

dont let your mom win. if you have to; cry.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: Bassie 
Date:   2009-11-16 08:25

Rapidcif,

I think to answer your question properly a person would have to hear and watch you play. This is where the idea of finding a really good player to help comes in. If you can find a talented University student, you can probably get free advice. Otherwise you might have to pay and get a 'lesson'.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: JJAlbrecht 
Date:   2009-11-16 11:51

Sorry, Shazama, I disagree with just about everythiong you said in that last post (unless it was all tongue in cheek).

FIrst off, the meth analogy is so flawed it isn't weorth much discussion. Secpon, his mother is not somebody he should learn to "manipulate," but someone he should work with. You can't build a relationship of trust and respect if it's all based on setting Mom up for the nextbig purchase. That's just plain dishonesty and manipulation. IU certainly hope your parents didn't get suckered that way.

If you can't vbe honest with your parents and what your goals are, you are in for a world of hurt not far down the line.

Jeff

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 Re: need explanation
Author: skygardener 
Date:   2009-11-16 12:49

"we NEED to teach him/her how to manipulate his mother effectively so that when his new private lessons teacher decides he/she is ready for a new mouthpiece that he will have the means necessary to milk his mother of all of her available funds.

when i was a kid, i would do extra chores to win some brownie points, then when i needed something.. i would act really depressed until my mum asked what was wrong. i would then tell her a sob story about how i absolutely needed a new bike or i absolutely needed one hundred dollars.

dont let your mom win. if you have to; cry."
--
I hope you are being sarcastic.

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 Re: need explanation
Author: Mark Charette 
Date:   2009-11-16 12:56

skygardener wrote:
> --
> I hope you are being sarcastic.

It's a troll. Ignore.

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