 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2009-11-07 06:53
Do any of the rest of you play in restaurants with a group for free food and tips? Yes, I have done this a few times this past year, and the end result is that I have a love/hate relationship about doing it. Love the playing, and the interaction with the audience. Hate the fact that at the end of the evening the group is worn out, most of us have to travel a distance, and am really wondering if it is worth the effort for getting about $5.00 each in tips. Being that tonight was a real bear, getting stuck in a monumental traffic jam on the way, now I'm REALLY wondering if it is worth the effort!! Would love to hear what others think about this. Thanks.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2009-11-07 08:56
I have a monthly gig for tips at an Art Gallery with a small group doing Gypsy and Jewish music. No distance involved, but it's a very crowded scene due to the co-location of arts venues who are cooperatively doing an open house. Very hard to park and very risky to run there from work with a truck full of instruments and leave it exposed to possible theft.
As the only horn player in a group with guitar vocals and hand drums, it's more demanding physically, technically, and creatively than most things I do for pay. However, I benefit tremendously from doing something that demanding, we get tremendous exposure as crowds travel from gallery to gallery, and I think that the instrument itself needs more exposure to the public. The group doesn't interfere with my paying gigs, and I would hate to leave it without having another clarinet player to step into the position.
As annoyed as I am by the non-paying thing and the logistics of the job, my band cohorts and the gallery owner are terrific people and a complete pleasure to work with--and the challenges and exposure for myself and the clarinet are not to be taken for granted.
However, travel would be a real problem for me. My free gig is only a mile from home. 10 or 20 miles would make a real difference in my attitude.
Allen Cole
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Author: ned
Date: 2009-11-07 09:15
I have never done this except for the odd ''once only introductory'' for the benefit of the prospective hirer of my band where a long term engagement was in the offing.
You may well love the playing, audience etc. etc...........BUT would this owner expect his wait staff and chef to work basically, for free? I think not!
If you work just for tips (and a meal), the owner will see you as a sucker. The audience will assume you are on wages and not expecting tips, of course, hence the meagre offerings you have received to date. Any tips they may give you will not be of the magnitude given to service staff (as is the custom in the USA) as they depend on tips, as is well known.
I have been constantly bemused at this system of tipping in the USA over my many years of visiting your shores. I can only wonder at the huge profits restaurant owners rake in due to the fact that they need pay only minimal staff wages, as they know that tips will account (probably) for the larger proportion of a service employee's salary. Musicians are not service employees - don't sell yourself short.
We don't tip anyone in Australia, generally speaking, just so you know.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-11-07 11:58
Hi,
There is a local restaurant that has a big band on one night of the week. Musicians work for the "joy" of it and a few drinks. There may be a few dinner chits thrown in at times. I have never worked with this group after being asked many times. I always am gracious though but here is what troubles me.
The musicians playing in this group are quite often not very good and have little if any "real" experience (i.e. have worked pay gigs with the better players in the area over a period of several years). While I'm all for people learning the craft requires to be a working musician, I'd rather not join them in these types of settings.
It's funny though that I have never run into any players from this group in any pits or gigs that I play in/on. Learning to play jazz, sight read effectively, and becoming a solid improvisational player takes time. Most of these players have a long way to go and it is not a whole lot of kick for me to hear them struggle along.
Unfortunately, the only true winner seems to be the restaurant owner in getting more than a dozen player to work for virtually nothing. Don't get me wrong, I do lots of pro bono musical work for my church and in several great communiversity bands that I play in; all are non-profit.
But for food and tips, no thanks!
HRL
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Author: kdk
Date: 2009-11-07 14:20
I've played any number of times gratis for charitable events run by non-profits that I was interested in helping. These "gigs" don't result in tips, of course, since the whole point is to raise money for the sponsor. I've played for basic local scale in restaurants and private clubs, where occasionally a tip was left, and I've tipped piano players who were playing in restaurants where I was a customer. I've never played at a commercial establishment solely for tips. It has always seemed to me that their motive for offering music is that it increases their bottom line income ostensibly by attracting a more culturally sensitive clientele. If I'm contributing to increased profits, I would expect at least a small share of the increase. I especially would expect to be reimbursed for any expenses (travel takes fuel and possibly highway tolls).
Is the music you provide a luxury for this restaurant, or would the owner pay for entertainment if he couldn't get it for free?
Karl
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-11-07 14:29
I've been in the same big band for over 25 years and rarely, if ever do we play for free.
In the past, we have donated our services for a few very worthy events like a "Awareness for Autism", the "Walk for Cancer" or a fundraiser for a needy local family whose husband was suddenly killed, but NEVER have we just played in an establishment for drinks and food (and tips).
And yes...we have been asked to do it.
Even in this economy where playing live music in public is steadily declining, we turn down all gigs where the money is not sufficient to cover time and travel.
When you give away your services for free you set a dangerous precedent with the public...GBK
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Author: USFBassClarinet
Date: 2009-11-07 15:13
I don't ever do gigs as I'm not in any type of small group yet. (although I am trying to a get a Flute, Bass Clarinet, Piano trio as I have finally gotten a small collection of the Het Trio Music) but other students do all the time and ALWAYS get paid for their gigs. The meal and free beer is usually extra, not the pay.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2009-11-07 16:07
Ask the restauranteur if he would cater your next family event for free for the love of doing it!
I know there are many out there that expect to find that musicians will play "for the love of it". The problem is, there is always someone who they can find who will do it for free. I have donated my time on occasion, BUT only if I choose to, perhaps for a good cause, or a personal favor. I would also consider playing for free, IF it were to be some type of experience that I feel I would LOVE to do or if I would learn a lot from the experience, or make some beneficial contacts.
I have spent a lot of money and time over the years on equipment, repairs, lessons, etc. My time and knowledge is valuable. I don't expect my doctor to treat me for free, nor should anybody expect that from me.
(I am easy, but not cheap! ;-P )
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-11-07 16:15
I'm a professional IT person. Many a times I've helped acquaintances and friends with some aspect of their computer or software.
But many is the time that they come back ... just recently:
"That Excel spreadsheet you created for me needs to be updated now that my business has taken off."
"Great - glad to hear it's doing well! I'll be glad to fix up that spreadsheet for you or transfer it into an accounting system. By the way, how do you want me to make out the invoice? My rate is $75/hr."
Dead silence. Face on acquaintance turns red ... and no response.
"Just let me know when you're ready."
![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif)
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Author: Rusty
Date: 2009-11-07 18:27
I play for nothing, but not in restaurants anymore. As a trio we like to put on a performance to an audience. The customers talking, dishes rattling and people walking around in restaurants makes your music just background stuff often ignored and unappreciated.
And yes there is no tipping in Aus. and I hope it stays that way.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2009-11-07 19:02
I think that a lot depends on the venue. Even for charity stuff, I think that the band should be paid at or near its going rate. Those events are usually pretty ostentatious [sic] and the payment for even a fairly large band pales in comparison with the usual costs of catering, decorating, etc.
The worst are restaurants and bars that claim they are compensating you with 'exposure.' They are exposing you as a band that will work for cheap or free.
For me, what draws the line is the type and quality of music you're getting to play, the profitability of the venue involved (or worthiness of the charity), and to what degree you benefit as an individual. It's one thing to volunteer a night of clarinet soloing in an art gallery, and very much another to provide mainstream entertainment to help someone else sell food and drink.
But I agree wholeheartedly that this is a slippery slope. GBK's band has the right idea. Take the good gigs and not the bad ones. Unless your band is full-time you only reallly need the good gigs. Bad gigs only make you miserable, endanger your day job, and make you less available to freelance.
Allen Cole
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2009-11-12 12:23
You don't say what kind of stage you are at in your career (or whether you are a professional or aspiring professional or a talented amateur) but to me you have more or less answered your own question. If the hassle and travel is more than the money (if you can call it that) and a meal are worth, then don't bother. As others have said, if you are confident that you are worth paying, then go for gigs that pay (unless it's a for a good cause that you want to help). If the restaurant owner is keen to get you back at a later stage, he/she must think it's worthwhile in terms of the bottom line (because you attract additional custom) so you have every right to expect a cut of the proceeds.
On the other hand, if you are the kind of performer who is still at a stage where building up experience and exposure is important, you may want to continue.
Vanessa.
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Author: huff n' puff
Date: 2009-11-12 13:27
Hi, all....... in the music lark, you have to (to keep your head above water) focus on the aspects of playing that bring positive returns, and ignore the fact (as I see it) that an to an awful lot of people out there, a group of musicians have hardly any higher social standing than a collection of performing chimps.
Has the fact that we are saturated with canned music at every turn got anything to do with it?....... silly question............ H. n' P.
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2009-11-12 19:36
As regards myself, I play professionally for money, had played the night before for 45 minutes and received $50, and I usually receive that kind of money. I play sax in a big band for fun, but since it is 10 minutes away, don't mind the fact that we don't get paid, but do get a great meal, once a month they meet.
I was just notified that one restaurant I was playing in has cancelled all their music for the time being, that was my band, and one other band. I was greatly relieved. That says a lot too, doesn't it!!
Thanks for your responses - Carol
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2009-11-12 20:07
Regardless of whether one performs in a concert venue or as background music, I would like to remind the BBoard of one point:
If you play for free, you're taking potential money away from someone who could use even $20-$50 for playing the same gig. Not as simple as that, of course, but in effect this is what happens. When venues expect to pay nothing for live entertainment, we all lose.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2009-11-12 23:54
Katrina,
I was thinking along the same lines. You are right on track. I have been playing professionally for well over 50 years and I'd really have to think hard about whether I ever had worked for free except for a church or with a community band. And I have a very good memory.
But even today, it is not uncommon for a church other than my own to pay me an honorarium no matter how small. It is a kind gesture that is always appreciated.
HRL
Post Edited (2009-11-13 01:55)
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Author: Noel
Date: 2009-11-13 12:11
I must admit playing to a crowded room of people who are mostly interested in eating and chatting could be very depressing. Within the free improv area I've often been involved in playing gigs in places like an upstairs room of a pub. The landlord of the pub probably lets the room be used without payment in the hope of selling one or two more drinks, and there's no kind funding body to subsidise fees, so people play for either no money or a split of the tiny amount of door money raised from selling tickets. Sometimes internationally known (jazz) musicians are on the same bill, but the audience can still be very small. The one thing that compensates is that the audience that has come really do listen - they haven't come to eat - or even to drink - but to join in the experience of hearing this music. This musical sub-culture would probably die out overnight if all the musicians insisted on a fee, so everyone - or nearly everyone - seems to accept this sorry situation with good grace. I'm not trying to imply that this is a good thing (it's not), but just making the point that where the music is of minority interest a different kind of realism takes hold.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-11-13 13:10
Noel wrote:
> I must admit playing to a crowded room of people who are mostly
> interested in eating and chatting could be very depressing.
??? - why would that be depressing? If you accept a gig to provide ambiance - you accept a gig to provide ambiance. Not every gig is for people to listen "to you". I spent years playing in C&W and rock bands. Most people came to dance, not to listen to us or "oooh-aaaah" us. If they did because we did something really, really well - it was an additional benefit, not a requirement.
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Author: Noel
Date: 2009-11-13 13:38
OK fine - it wouldn't be depressing if you entered into it in that spirit, however I think there is a big diference between playing to people dancing and reacting directly to the music (as in your C&W/rock band) and playing to people who are chiefly interested in eating and don't, in the process, mind a bit of background music. I didn't say it 'would' be depressing, by the way - I said 'could'. I think you may have ascribed a kind of vanity to my posting - although I can't say I'm exactly immune to somebody going 'oooh-aaaah' ...
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