 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jacoblikesmusic
Date: 2009-11-02 01:20
Okay, so I recently purchased a Yamaha Custom CSV clarinet for me to start out with in high school, but my tutor told me I should get a better mouthpiece to go with it, instead of the Vandoren M13 profile 88 I currently use.
I've been looking at mouthpieces by Fobes, Grabner, Hawkins, and Behn. Since I'm definitly not spending $650 on a vintage behn mouthpiece, thats out. I'm prepared to spend about $300 on a new mouthpiece if I have to. Also, If you do reccomend me a mouthpiece, can you tell me characteristics of it? I know I'm supposed to try the mouthpiece out first to see what I like, but since I'm living in a pretty small city, I have to order everything online.
If I could try out multiple mouthpieces, can you tell me how that is done?
While doing research on mouthpieces, I also came across barrels by Backun
and others that are supposedly awesome and should make my tone richer. Is that really true?
As i have said, my budged is limited to $300. I'm using the Vandoren M13 Profile 88, and the wooden barrel I have came with my instrument. Should I get a new barrel or a new mouthpiece?
Thanks in advance for helping me.
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Author: USFBassClarinet
Date: 2009-11-02 01:27
I have never noticed anything wrong with anyone here at USF who uses the M13. But if you must get a new one, perhaps ask your tutor as they should know what's most appropriate for you. The mouthpiece makers you listed are generally considered professional level mouthpieces and most people don't consider them until college.
I also don't see a barrel necessary at all. There is many professional clarinetists who never buy fancy barrels, but if you have the money and you feel you must, why not? I think it would be wiser to save you money until you become more discriminating in your choices and you are more use to the particular clarinet you have so you know what to look for in a barrel.
As for trials, it's different everywhere. Most run a "buy the product, return in two weeks in NEW considition." at the least ones I use do. I personally use Grabner mouthpieces on everything I play and he is very reasonable and understanding with trials.
Others will have better and more in depth responses than me.
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Author: jacoblikesmusic
Date: 2009-11-02 03:57
So are you saying a better mouthpiece is more important than a better barrel? And I'm also guessing you prefer Grabner? Have you tried mouthpieces by any other person?
Post Edited (2009-11-02 03:58)
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-11-02 04:42
Start with the mouthpiece and work your way doen the clarinet from there. You don't know what each piece will contribute to the equation if you are switching everything at once.
Why does your teacher/tutor feel the M13 is not appropriate for you? That will give you an idea where to start looking, and which models to check out. I ahve used mouthpieces hand finished by David Hite, Ted Lane, Walter Grabner and Gregory Smith. All are very nice, and each has its own characteristics.
Best for you and your teacher to shop for the right piece.
Jeff
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-11-02 08:02
I'll second (or third) the suggestion to ask you tutor what in your tone needs improving and why he/she thinks that this can (only) be cured with a new mouthpiece or barrel.
Has your teacher explored all the "built-in" improvements (work on oral cavity, tongue position, air stream and the like) ?
--
Ben
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-11-02 11:21
My son's high school had ALL the players switch to 5RV's. While that was probably an improvement for the kids who had junker mouthpieces, I don't agree that it has helped my son's tone. For him, it was a mouthpiece change for the sake of change, not for the sake of improvement.
I also don't agree that everyone should have been required to make the switch, especially when their parents may have greater knowledge than the flute-playing/brass specialist band directors...but don't get me started.
Don't buy a mouthpiece just for the sake of getting a new one if you like your sound now. It's fun to experiment, but that's just it...you have to experiment, and higher prices don't necessarily mean a mouthpiece that will be better for you. Plenty of great players use M13s.
One of the techs at the music shop in town had a bunch of extra mouthpieces that he sent home with me to try. I went through all of them, switching reeds, ligatures, etc. I ended up liking one of the least expensive models best. Just worked for my setup.
If you've got $300 to blow, then go have fun. Otherwise, try many mouthpieces, from the cheap the the expensive, and make sure to keep your M13 in the rotation so you can see how it compares. You may decide not to make a switch.
As for barrels, I can't speak to that specifically, as the one that came with my instrument (designed FOR my instrument...fitted TO my instrument...reamed WITH my instrument) has worked well for 25 years.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2009-11-02 11:45
After trying a number of different, and expensive, mouthpieces, I eventually came back to using a Yamaha C4. It's relatively inexpensive and for me it just works better than any others that I've tried. I'd advise against changing the mouthpiece and the barrel together, you'll never really know what made a difference. It may well be that the original barrel work fine with the new mouthpiece. Personally, i think that the barrel contributes less to the tone that the mouthpiece. You might also care to try a Selmer HS*. They don't cost the earth and I've always found them to work well with the right instrument.
Tony F.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-11-02 13:14
Just as an aside, my daughter studied with one of the Detroit Symphony clarinetisits until moving on to college in another town this fall. She is a performancemajor (with a double major in a second field as a fallback). She tried literaly dozens of mouthpieces, including many of hte handcrafted mouthpieces in the price range you are considering. Guess what she ended up selecting as the best match to her personal tone and playing styles:
A Vandoren M13. $78 instead of almost $300. It wasn't a mouthpiece that would work well for me, but for her, it was perfect.
So, once again, find out what your teacher feels is the deficiency in your current sound BEFORE you lay out lots of cash. And from one of your other posts, I would recommend using the rest of the money you save to buy a plactic clarinet for marching, so you don't destroy that Yamaha. God only knows what damage you might have already done to it.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-11-02 14:42
Jacob -
I assume you began playing clarinet in the seventh grade and are entering high school in the tenth grade. After three years of playing, you're probably at the point where your tone and technique are developing well, and you can tell the difference between beginner and advanced equipment.
Many professional players use Vandoren mouthpieces, and you should try some of their other models before shelling out big bucks for a hand-made mouthpiece. I play on a hand-made mouthpiece that's a bit more open than the 5RV, and I've found that the 5RV Lyre works for the way I play. It's a very individual thing, and different samples of the same model are often totally unalike.
If you (or your parents) can afford a hand-made mouthpiece, I strongly recommend that you get a barrel matched to it. Walter Grabner offers such combinations for around $350, which is close to your budget amount. This is a big step up from a mouthpiece alone.
Ideally, you would go to the maker's workshop to pick out a mouthpiece that matches your embouchure, clarinet and playing style, and then have a barrel adjusted to work with the mouthpiece. If you can't do this, Walter Grabner will send you a mouthpiece and barrel for a trial period. You should get in touch with him at http://www.clarinetxpress.com/ to tell him about yourself, your clarinet and what you're looking for.
Good luck. Top quality equipment is great, but at that level, the important part is getting something exactly right for your instrument and way of playing. A $600 mouthpiece is worthless if it doesn't play well for you. Also, you may be very happy with a different Vandoren model. Remember that a good player can sound good on almost anything, and that the most important part of the instrument is you.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-11-02 14:49
All the mouthpieces mentioned above are good quality mouthpieces but may or not be good for you. I agree that you should concentrate of finding "your" mouthpiece before a barrel even though I'm a big fan of the Backun barrels. Remember, just like mouthpieces, every barrel is different, no two exactly alike. The same with mouthpieces. Even the same make and model, no two play exactly alike. Although I don't use a Vandoren mouthpiece I know many players that do, they actually make a very good mouthpiece if you find the right one for you. I'd suggest that you try several different facings of the Vandorens first because they are very reasonably priced. Some play darker, some play brighter etc. Most big mail order stores will allow you to try 3-4 at a time. I always suggest you try several different facings and if you find one you like then return the others and ask to try 3-4 of the same facing you like since, as I said, every mouthpiece plays differently. When you go to college you can look into a more expensive mouthpiece because many teacher may want you to change again anyway. ESP
http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-11-02 14:55
I mostly can only repeat the good advice of the above posts (such as, there is nothing at all wrong with the M13, a great mouthpiece).
But there are some improvements one can make and my preference in the "fine tuning department" would be Greg Smith's mouthpieces. His facings are incredibly consistant all the way through the very tip where it is critical for the altissimo notes especially.
In Greg's case the mouthpieces are $300 but he is very generous about sending many mouthpieces to try at one time.
He also does have "matching" Chadash barrels that cand do some amazing things in combo but I use Yamaha CSGs and there is no corresponding Chadash for them (and of course the barrels add a bit more expense to the proposition).
..............good luck,
.........................Paul Aviles
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Author: OldClarinetGuy
Date: 2009-11-02 19:06
Is there something wrong with the mouthpiece? Do not get carried away with this and I would not mess around with barrels at this point. Relax and figure out the characteristics of the clarinet. It may be just fine the way it is. My son was a clarinet performance major and has not played on anything but a Van Doren mouthpiece. I have a student who was just accepted as a performance major and he plays a M30.
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Author: jacoblikesmusic
Date: 2009-11-03 00:16
Well the main problem for me is that my tone is very centered, but the mouthpiece seems to lack projection. I'm trying to look for something a bit more free-blowing than my M13, because it feels like im fighting against it when i play it.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-11-03 00:24
And you sure it's the mouthpiece, and not the clarinet that for some reason doesn't blow as freely as can be? You know, a tiny leak somewhere, an slight misadjustment, ... (I'm just asking)
Besides - what reeds are you using with it? Maybe try a different brand, a different strength...? Or a fresh reed? ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: jacoblikesmusic
Date: 2009-11-03 00:33
I'm pretty sure its the mouthpiece because I had a professional pick out my clarinet for me and it was amazing when he played it. I took it to the shop already and got it tweaked, so I dont think thats the problem. I'm using a traditional vandoren 3.5. I've tried the rico reserve but i still prefer vandoren.
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Author: OldClarinetGuy
Date: 2009-11-03 00:44
You may want to look at the Fobes because he has a lot of different styles to try. On his web page he has a chart of the various openings, facing lengths, etc. I have a very good student who uses the 2M and 2l and another who uses the CF+ . The student who uses the 2L and 2M is new to me, but the student who uses the CF+ went through the selection process with me. He ordered 3 or 4 styles on trial from a vendor, and then when he found the one he liked he returned the others and ordered 2 more of the CF+ to pick the one he liked.
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Author: maskedridersean
Date: 2009-11-03 06:07
Most of the previous posts are right, try using some different reeds before spending a lot of money on a new mouthpiece. While many professional and amateurs alike use Fobes, Smith, Hawkins etc TONS of people use Vandoren mouthpieces. For less than $100 its a bargain you can't beat and none of those mouthpieces will actually guarantee better results. I personally liked the feel of the M15 better than the M13 for the reasons you said. It felt closed off to me. But that is just one clarinetist opinion. Most of the other clarinetists at my university play M13. I also like Vandoren because I think they are rather consistent from mouthpiece to mouthpiece.
Answer this, IF you decide to study at a university or conservatory the first thing your professor might say is to ditch your mouthpiece. Its not fair, its not right but it happens. For your teacher right now to recommend you fork over that much is a little disturbing.
On a similiar note, I don't personally put much stock in professionals picking instruments for you. They might like it...but they aren't the ones who have to live with that decision long term. That pro might have a very different taste for clarinets than you do.
The very bottom line is that if it works for you, don't worry about the price tag or label. Plenty of people fork over more money than my car is worth for a set of Tosca's and it doesn't get them anywhere. Many, Many orchestral players play R-13s. a great clarinet but not the Cadillac of clarinets. Stanley Drucker was recently reported to be playing on stock barrels and a very common mouthpiece. STANLEY DRUCKER! I know of a few people who have actually achieved more success after then took off all their fancy Backun barrels and bells and got back to basics.
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Author: bcl1dso
Date: 2009-11-03 08:12
I believe Mr. Drucker plays a Chedeville/Lelandais mouthpiece...not too common a mouthpiece
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Author: maskedridersean
Date: 2009-11-04 02:23
I stand corrected.
But he could a chipped stock mouthpiece and a piece of bubble gum for a ligature and still rock out.
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