 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-11-21 10:37
I ordered a vintage R-13 for trial. I noticed that the description states that unlike the current R-13, the vintage does not have metal tenon rings. What are the pros and cons of metal tenon rings vs. no rings? In particular, what should my concerns be, in this regard, if I buy the vintage model?
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Author: Dave Spiegelthal
Date: 2000-11-21 15:31
Pro: Protect the end of the tenons from chipping and wear resulting from careless assembly.
Con: Can't think of any, except that eventually the rings may loosen and require re-swaging or re-gluing.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-11-21 16:16
I agree with Dave, I have them on my best LeBlancs, and feel they give some protection against cracking, the UJ in particular. Similarly, the external rings on my Selmer alto and bass UJ's protect as well. Don
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Author: drew
Date: 2000-11-21 17:17
I've been told that metal tenon caps can, in a very small way, alter the sonic characteriestics of an instrument, making the tone color a bit brighter. If this is true, then a person seeking a "dark" tone would want to avoid instruments with this feature.
I had the opportunity this past summer to trial 12 R-13's at a single sitting, not a one of them had metal tenon caps. However, the Prestige has caps on all tenons. Go figure.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-11-21 20:13
Today I added a regular R-13 to the order, so it'll be interesting to see of it has metal tenon rings.
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Author: Daniel
Date: 2000-11-21 22:05
To me, "tenon rings" and "tenon caps" are two different things. Caps would be at the end of the male tenon (like on the Prestige and other model). Rings would be what every clarinet has on the barrel, upper tenon of the lower joint and the bell.
I've never seen a regular R-13 with tenon caps. Except maybe once when a guy had them installed on his horn. I can't remember if the Vintage has the caps or not... but it certainly has metal tenon rings. And if they're not metal, they sure fooled me.
Actually, i have two students with new R-13's, i'll have to check their horns when i see them next week and see if the new ones do infact have tenon caps now.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-11-21 22:33
The description I referred to in the first message was from the wwandbw catalog. I just went to the Boosey web site, and there was no mention of tenon rings for either model. So, perhaps the catalog is incorrect.
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-11-21 23:06
My Selmer Signet Special has both tenon rings and tenon caps. The clarinet is in good condition. One thing I notice about the caps is that, in order to install them, the manufacturer ground the wood down very thin in that area. David Pino, in _The Clarinet and Clarinet Playing_, offers the opinion that tenon caps can promote cracking, when changes in temperature and humidity swell and shrink the wood. I'm not sure there's any definitve scientific evidence one way or another -- plenty of opinions, though!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2000-11-22 12:24
Most new French top model clarinets imported here, if they do not have 'caps', have a problem with the tenon timber swelling and needing reducing in diameter. This often has to be done three times before jamming is no longer a problem. I am sure this was NOT common a decade or two ago. Is the timber now inferior or is the drying &/or treatment of the timber skimped. Who knows! But it does not seem to be such a problem with the Japan sourced Yamahas. We import almost no pro American clarinets for comparison.
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Author: Amanda Rose
Date: 2000-11-22 17:35
This summer I bought an R-13. Not a single one had tenon caps... nickel plated or silver plated. The Festivals and Prestiges I tried did. (My mom was ready to spring for a festival but I wasn't as impressed with the tone on them as I was with the R-13... go figure. I decided tone was more important than alternate Eb)
Amanda Rose
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-11-23 02:19
I had tenon caps installed on my R13. In my opinion it keeps moisture out of the end grain and reduces the tendency to swell and the liklihood of cracking. I also oil the bore with Omar's oil. I didn't notice a change in sound when I had the caps put on.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-11-23 11:37
Author: Ken Rasmussen wrote:
I had tenon caps installed on my R13. In my opinion it keeps moisture out of the end grain and reduces the tendency to swell and the liklihood of cracking. I also oil the bore with Omar's oil. I didn't notice a change in sound when I had the caps put on.
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Ken: Interesting info, and bold decision. I guess the risk of doing this type of work is very small with a skilled repair person. I'm beginning to think that an additional criteria for my selection of a new clarinet is that it have the rings/caps.
I'm still not sure about the difference between tenon rings and end caps. I mentioned that the wwandbw catalog says that the vintage R-13 does not have tenon rings. I also found the same statement in another retailers description, but it's not mentioned on the Boosey web site.
Now we are discussing end caps. Issue 20 of the Woodwind Quarterly describes the procedure for installing end caps. It is not clear to me whether wood is removed from the tenon, or socket to fit the cap.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-11-23 13:36
Bill wrote:
>
> ... I'm still not sure about the difference between tenon rings and
> end caps. I mentioned that the wwandbw catalog says that the
> vintage R-13 does not have tenon rings. I also found the same
> statement in another retailers description, but it's not
> mentioned on the Boosey web site.
>
> Now we are discussing end caps. Issue 20 of the Woodwind
> Quarterly describes the procedure for installing end caps. It
> is not clear to me whether wood is removed from the tenon, or
> socket to fit the cap.
Tenon rings go on the outside of the female socket of the joint to reinforce the wood.
End caps (sometimes called tenon caps) go on the outside of the male tenon.
For the end caps, I believe that the wood is removed from the male tenon as my Leblanc has an end cap on the top of the upper joint and overall that tenon is the same size as that on other clarinets that I have seen. The barrel is the same size as other standard barrels and the socket of the barrel is a standard diameter and depth. At least comparing to others that I have floating around here anyway.
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Author: Bill
Date: 2000-11-23 14:09
Dee: This makes sense, and the difference (rings/caps) is now clear.
The tenon rings would not only reinforce the wood, but would also be decorative.
The wwandbw catalog says that the vintage and elite R-13 don't have "metal tenon rings". The picture of the vintage shows rings, but the elite doesn't. Also, on the Boosey web site, the vintage shows rings and the elite doesn't.
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-11-23 16:09
The decorativeness of the tenon rings can come in very handy when evaluating a used clarinet. Every manufacturer uses a slightly distinctive contour to their tenon bands. Not all joints have serial numbers on them -- some manufacturers number only one joint and some put the company logo on only one or two sections. In those cases, the tenon rings have warned me more than once that a used instrument offered for sale was a "marriage" of parts from assorted clarinets. Since those old instruments generally had deteriorated corks, I might not have spotted the problem that the parts wouldn't fit together, if I hadn't noticed that the tenon bands didn't match. "Married" sections are usually a disaster, because different manufacturers set up the bridge differently at the center joint, and place the center joint in slightly different relationship to the tone holes. A mismatched barrel isn't always a problem, OTOH, because some people will replace the barrel due to cracking or intonation problems. But those key joints need to match or else there's trouble in River City.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2000-11-25 14:37
The language is probably by no means standardized. The male part is definitely the tenon (by definition of the word). The female part is definitely NOT a tenon. It is a tenon SOCKET. So 'tenon cap' = 'tenon ring very likely'. As far as I know ALL clarinets have tenon SOCKET rings on every tenon socket. Otherwise they would split apart very easily from the pressure of the cork, or a pooly fitting (oversize) tenon, or a swollen tenon, especially during mis-aligned assembly by a less than careful user. I think that when a maker refers to the EXISTENCE OR NOT of a tenon something they probably are referring to the end of the tenon, but if they are raving about the decorative finish then they are talking about a part that is visible, i.e. the tenon SOCKET ring.
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