 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Adrianna
Date: 2009-10-16 01:27
I was just wondering what techniques everyone uses? I discovered over the summer that I don't use my tongue to articulate, but rather my bottom lip with the tip of my tongue anchored to the inside of my lip. Now I know that sounds really strange, my teacher thought so too...but I read in the Keith Stein book on clarinet playing that it is a valid technique. Does anyone else tongue this way? If so, how have you developed articulating speed? I find that my articulations is not as crisp and clean as it could be. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Adrianna
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Author: gigaday
Date: 2009-10-16 07:50
I found this article very helpful http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Study/TongueFaster.html
I was tonguing much as you describe and I found that changing to the tip of the tongue as described in the article felt much better and sounded better. It took a while to make the change, a couple of months, during which time other aspects of my playing suffered because my attention was on the tonguing but I think it was worth the effort.
Tony
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-10-16 12:09
Considering this on all levels, as long as the affect is as quick as it would be without the lip playing the role of "intermediary," I suppose there is nothing essentially wrong.
However
I would put forth that using the tongue directly upon the reed, you have many more tonal options to the sound of your articulation (thuddy versus pointed and all the subtle shades in between that is).
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: TianL
Date: 2009-10-16 14:24
i'm with tony. i used to do the same thing also. i've changed it to the tip-to-tip way and i'm glad i did.
it indeed took a while though... indeed.. like several months at least. also during the process, it's not only you feel strange about tonguing, but also slurring. because i suppose right now when you slur, you tip of the tongue is anchored on the bottom lip. but in order to do the tonguing tip-to-tip way, even when you are slurring, your tip of the tongue as to be right there - very close to the tip of the reed.. so it will feel strange for slurring for a while too.
but once you change it, you will get a more secure tonguing and you will have much greater space for improvement.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-10-16 21:23
Check out my website and look at the articles on tonguing in the clarinet page, it should be useful to you. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Italy08
Date: 2009-10-17 05:24
I started out tounging with my throat and then quickly corrected that problem. What really helped me was this: using a black washable marker, draw a small dot on the tip of your reed and then try to tongue with the tip of your tongue hitting the dot. Then look to see where the dot washed off on your tongue. You'll get a good sense of knowing where you are or aren't placing your tongue.
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Author: Maruja
Date: 2009-10-17 14:24
Hey, what a good idea! Getting feedback is quite difficult but this will really show practically what is happening....
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-10-17 15:03
Ummm..........just make sure the marker you use is COMPLETELY non-toxic (buy in the KIDZ section I suppose).
................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-10-17 15:07
So, your tongue doesn't actually contact the reed at all? I've had a couple of students over the years who articulated that way - i.e. with bottom lip pressure closing off the reed instead of the tongue stopping it, although I don't remember the added twist of anchoring their tongues to the lip. The very audible give-away sign was a very indistinct, muddy start to articulated notes and a lack of ease with any kind of fast articulation (not bat-out-of-hell fast, just normal articulation such as you'd have to play in a Sousa march).
It's been a very long time since I read the Stein book, so I don't know exactly what he wrote (or how you read it). Although I've never known a successful player who articulated the way you've described (if I've understood you correctly), there is a technique called "anchor tonguing" which involves anchoring the tip of the tongue to the bottom lip and then articulating with the middle of the tongue against the reed. Not very many players seem to use it anymore, though it was in fact the way I was first taught by a player - a student of Lucien Caillet - in the Philadelphia Orchestra decades ago. My next teacher changed my approach very quickly. It has some potential bad effects if it isn't done correctly, but it's possible to articulate cleanly and rapidly that way.
Karl
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2009-10-17 16:11
That's exactly how I "tongued" in high school. Initially, I didn't like the feel of my tongue touching the reed but as was mentioned above, after a couple of weeks I grew comfortable with it and now cannot imagine anything else. The clean, crisp sound you get with conventional tonguing, in my opinion, is easier to achieve and responds faster than the tongue-in-the-lip method.
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Author: Adrianna
Date: 2009-10-17 16:30
Thanks for all the advice. I am not quite sure how I learned this very odd technique, my current teacher always assumed I tongued with the tip of my tongue. It was not until this summer, when I was working on the Midsummer's Night Dream orchestral excerpt that I finally figured out why I couldn't tongue crisply. Judging by the majority of advice, it looks like the smart thing would be to slowly teach myself how to use the tip of my tongue. What sort of excersisis would be beneficial? Any suggestions?
I don't have the Keith Stein book handy at the moment, I am actually at work. But, I will copy that specific passage regarding the different tonguing techniques and share it with everyone.
Adrianna
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2009-10-17 16:56
As a former lip-tonguer myself, I can tell you that I am now comfortable using the part of my tongue that is almost one centimeter above the very tip of my tongue.
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Author: Adrianna
Date: 2009-10-20 03:56
Aright, so this the quote from Keith Stein's book on tonguing styles:
"The French school of playing has successfully incorporated the mid-tongue method to take care of the long tongue problem. The tip anchors lightly on the gums just below the lower teeth, leaving the middle of hte tongue free to contact the reed. Tongues that are slightly longer than average may anchor the tongue tip on the inside membrane of the lower lip, bumping it without leaving the flesh. The resultant jarring effect is transmitted via the lower lip to the reed. It is an extremlely sensitive, rapid and effective way to articulate, allowing for a surprising degree of finesse."
Well, what do we all think?
Adrianna
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-10-20 19:32
I think I need to try it. Keith Stein was "The Man."
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Clarigal
Date: 2009-10-22 22:33
I played recorder for many years. So, instead of "voicing" with my "throat" as you do in recorder, I had to learn to "voice" with my tongue instead. I am not sure about the many techniques so I would just take the advice of the people who have posted above me. It can be difficult whether you are a beginner or an advance player.
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