 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Coomkeen
Date: 2009-10-12 21:07
Hi All,
Been looking at Vandoren mouthpieces and I'm confused.
For example: The B45 comes (so their site says) in '13 series' as well as trad, and the 13 series is for 'American' players who use A=440.
So what is the trad version for?
I've been used to A=440 for decades (though not played a clarinet, only Sax, piano, guitar, etc.).
So....
Do I go for a trad B45 or a 13 series?
All help appreciated.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2009-10-12 21:49
I believe that the traditional is a slightly different blank, often a bit higher in pitch. Many of the 13 series are the Profile 88, which is a slimmer beak. The only way to now for sure is to try. I had a student who used the 13 series M30 and found that for her the focus and pitch was a little better with the traditional series. Check carefully with a tuner. Some in the 13 series can be a little low, especially in the throat, depending on your set up.
Post Edited (2009-10-13 00:01)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-10-12 22:01
The traditional Vandoren series were designed to play a little sharper, which would give you a little more room above A=440 for an orchestra that plays at 441 or 442 (but still within pulling-out distance of 440). I believe (or so I've been told) that Donald Montanaro (now retired associate principal clarinet in Philadelphia) worked with Vandoren to develop the series 13 Mxx mouthpieces - M13, M14, M15, etc. - to be more appropriate to the needs of American orchestras, which mostly claim to play at A=440. There are other tone differences as well to my ears, having bought both a Series 13 M15 and a traditional M15 at one point specifically for comparison's sake.
Karl
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Author: Sambo 933
Date: 2009-10-12 23:04
I switched from a B45 to a 13 series (M15) a few months ago and I can't I've had any serious tuning issues.
According to the Vandoren Website the 13 series was desinged specifically to play at A=440, and for me thats pretty much where it plays.
I will say that when I was deciding which mouthpiece to buy i learned that
Vandoren has the most confusing system for naming their models.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-10-13 03:44
It does depend on the clarinet you play and how you voice the clarinet. I suggest you try some of each since every mouthpiece plays differently anyway. Use a tuner to see how the pitch is for you. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-10-13 03:47
The guy in marketing at Vandoren who devised the 13 series and then named a mouthpiece the M13 creating as much confusion as possible should be transferred to the VD factory in Siberia.
Why not just call it M13-440 or M13-442?
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Author: abstruse_melisma
Date: 2009-10-13 04:50
There will always be a lot of variation in factory-made mouthpieces, and remember that softer reeds play flatter. You must use appropriate reeds for the facing you want to test. Appropriate meaning characteristic of what you consider a good reed, but not just the single best reed you have, as well as the correct strength. There is a lot of information on this forum about reed strength compared to facings so I won't elaborate, just do a quick search.
Bottom line:
Try as many of both as you can, with as many good reeds as you can, in front of a tuner, and at all registers and dynamics. Most important in the equation: your ears.
Devin T.B. Langham
Clarinet Performance Major
Michigan State University
interlude
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Author: Coomkeen
Date: 2009-10-13 08:39
Many thanks for all the replies.
Yes the Vandoren number/naming system is not what I would call logical
So basically the 440/'13 series' is designed to help raise the pitch slightly, or at least to make tuning 'up' a bit easier and more focussed.
Having only played the clarinet for a few months, switching from a Sax, I have rapidly been using harder reeds than I was using on the Sax, as the 2 1/2 I started with was sounding rather dull. The pitch was 'OK' according to the tuner, or could be with a bit of effort, but did sound 'flat' to my ears.
3 is better, but I still might go to a 3 1/2.
Unfortunately, living in the far southwest of Ireland, there are limited opportunities for trying mcps. In fact there are none that I can find !
The small band that I play in, and a local orchestra that has just started, seem to base their tuning on 440, and I have just managed to get an old Buffet Crampon that is in excellent condition having been completely overhauled by a good local chap.
So maybe..... taking all things into consideration.... I may go for the 13 series mcp.
Ron
www.coomkeen.com
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Author: bcl1dso
Date: 2009-10-13 09:22
13 series brings the pitch DOWN to 440. The standard/regular/non-13 series, is tuned at 442 and therefore is higher than the 13 series.
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Author: Coomkeen
Date: 2009-10-13 10:07
Sorry - my tryping error.
I know European orchestras tend to like a higher pitch, so an American approach would be lower.
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Author: Dileep Gangolli
Date: 2009-10-13 11:36
Why can't you Europeans just play at 440?
Then we wouldn't have this problem.
And while you're at it start playing real football not soccer.
And drive on the correct side of the road. All of you, not just some.
If single malt is better, then why did one of you start "blending" them?
They're sausages not bangers.
Did I miss anything?
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Author: Coomkeen
Date: 2009-10-13 11:50
No you didn't miss a lot.
In Ireland we play to 440, and in England too.
Gaelic football is something else, not to mention Hurling, so I won't go there.
I always drink single malt. Is there any other?
And Gubbeen Sausages are definitely not bangers )
As to driving on the 'right' side of the road, it's sometimes a debatable point here as to which side people do drive on.
And if you go into a 'bar' you can get a 'measure' of whiskey.
Hmmmmm....
Ron
www.coomkeen.com
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-10-13 12:03
Dileep Gangolli wrote:
> Why can't you Europeans just play at 440?
> Then we wouldn't have this problem.
> And while you're at it start playing real football not soccer.
> And drive on the correct side of the road. All of you, not just some.
> If single malt is better, then why did one of you start "blending" them?
> They're sausages not bangers.
> Did I miss anything?
The metric system
...GBK
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Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2009-10-13 15:07
As has been noted - some of Europe do play at 440 ;o)
The sport is called FOOTball - not PICKITUPANDRUNWITHITWITHONLYASMALLCHANCEOFKICKINGITball - we have the correct version. Nobody even bothers to call it soccer here, we all understand what is a very simple concept.
As to which side to drive on - yes, it's silly that everyone else uses the other side - you're still wrong mind.
The single malt argument is rather silly - A Ferrari is obviously so much better if you tack bits of a Ford Transit and Mini onto it.
Nobody that I know calls sausages bangers, except in the context of bangers and mash - a dish name much like Eton Mess or Cranachan, so get over that one too.
And the metric system is hardly used by anyone in day to day terms by this set of Europeans at any rate - distances, peoples' heights and weights and so on are all still given (mostly) using imperial figures.
<sigh> ahhh, that's better :o)
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Author: Coomkeen
Date: 2009-10-13 15:41
And if you go into a timber (lumber) yard and expect to get some 100 x 50, what you'll get is 4 x 2.
A pint of milk is still a pint, even if it's marked 568ml.
Just to make it worse (or better?) we have 50kg bags of oats holding 2 bushels.
Ron
www.coomkeen.com
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2009-10-14 01:00
Having everyone play at the same pitch is nice..but do all you folk just drink Budweiser? I know of nowhere on earth where there is more quality beer than in Europe of every type..brown ales, white beer, wheat beer. Variety is great...so as to pitch well what are a few vibrations up or down..at the end of the day you just gotta make music.
David Dow
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Author: gigaday
Date: 2009-10-14 07:58
>Why can't you Europeans just play at 440?
>Then we wouldn't have this problem.
>And while you're at it start playing real football not soccer.
>And drive on the correct side of the road. All of you, not just some.
>If single malt is better, then why did one of you start "blending" them?
>They're sausages not bangers.
>Did I miss anything?
I presume you are referring to the British in particular ...
According to John Cleese, the main differences from Americans is that the Brits:
1. Only go down on their knees to royalty - and that's when being knighted. (remember Monica?)
2. Invite other countries to compete in a World sports competition.
3. Speak English.
Tony
Post Edited (2009-10-14 11:42)
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