 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: AP
Date: 2009-10-09 21:14
I hope this isn't too stupid a question, but...
I studied clarinet for a few years at school in the early 1980s, and have played on and off since then. I'm using a late-70s Boosey & Hawkes Edgware with Vandoren 1 1/2 reeds (anything harder than a 2 and I struggle to make a sound) and wouldn't pretend to be anything other than a very amateurish player.
Anyway, the problem is that the sound I make is all spit and breath and very little actual note. My embouchure isn't great, but varying it (or the reed) doesn't seem to make any difference. The mouthpiece has no distinguishing marks at all so I assume it's the B&H one that came with the instrument.
I'm reluctant to blame the clarinet, as I'm sure the fault is with my rusty technique. What am I doing wrong? Any suggestions gratefully received!
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Author: Neal Raskin
Date: 2009-10-09 21:38
I would recommend a couple of things:
If playing after a good amount of time make sure the instrument is in good shape.
- Take it to a reputable repairman to go through it and make sure everything is in working order.
- You might want to invest in a new mouthpiece. Having a good mouthpiece will make all the difference.
- When you get a new mouthpiece, check a reed recommendation chart. Even if you need to start softer, you have an idea of what strength works well with the mp.
Once you are sure the equipment you are using is in good working order, then you can look to other issues.
Not sure if you've already done any of this already, but that's where I'd start.
I'm short on time, so maybe some others can give some better advice.
Cheers,
NMR
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Author: AP
Date: 2009-10-09 22:12
Thanks Neal, all good advice. The clarinet has just been serviced, and I'm confident it's in good working order. I'm considering a Vandoren 5JB mouthpiece, which I gather is the best for softer reeds.
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Author: AP
Date: 2009-10-09 22:26
I can't blow very hard, simply because I have neighbours. The softer I blow, the more any note is drowned out by hiss.
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Author: FDF
Date: 2009-10-09 22:35
You have a leak somewhere, most likely your embouchure or the mouthpiece.
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Author: weberfan
Date: 2009-10-09 22:39
Since we can't hear you or see you play, it would help for you to have a teacher or other clarinet-playing professional evaluate your playing.
Can you manage to do that, for a few lessons perhaps?
You can certainly play-test a few mouthpieces to find out if this is at the heart of your problem, but if there are other obstacles, a teacher would be able to pinpoint them.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-10-09 22:52
The Vandoren 5JB is I'm pretty sure a Jazz facing mouthpiece which would require soft reeds just to work! quite the opposite to your problem.
You really need some professional advice to help you select an appropriate lay but certainly nothing too extreme in either direction.
Usually B&H mouthpieces are marked as such and also would be classified as either a 926 or 593 model so I suspect you do not have an original on that instrument.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-10-09 23:05
AP contact me off-line if you'd like to discuss anything. I'm in London.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: grenadilla428
Date: 2009-10-10 02:43
AP, I would submit that you shouldn't purchase new equipment until you have had a lesson or two with a private instructor. For a few reasons:
- You admit that your embouchure "isn't great" and your technique is "rusty." If the foundations of playing aren't there, then no equipment will be of benefit.
- It would be unfortunate to spend your hard-earned money on equipment that may or may not work for you in an attempt to solve the problem.
- Plus, it's frustrating to make purchase after purchase with little improvement, and playing the instrument should be enjoyable, not frustrating. :-)
Look into visiting with a reputable teacher, and here's hoping you hear progress soon!
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Author: Missreed
Date: 2009-10-10 12:56
Hi,
In my opinion there are two other things that could be wrong: your fingers aren't placed well enough so there is no sound or squeeky sound. (That drove me crazy for a while) or you just can't play on a Boosey and Hawkes (anymore)? I wanted to buy a Boosey and Hawkes a while ago but when I tried to play it, I couldn't get a single note out of it. Have you tried playing on other clarinets?
How well can you play in the first register? Is there any sound when you just push the air through?
Post Edited (2009-10-10 12:58)
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-10-10 17:09
Clarinet is one of the easiest instruments on which to produce basic tone. It doesn't take a "correct" embouchure or a great deal of skill just to get a sound that is mostly tone with little or no air. So, I would suggest that your reluctance to "blame" the clarinet (or by extension the rest of the equipment chain) is misguided. If, as you say, the instrument is in good working order, then it's more likely either the mouthpiece is damaged in some way or that the *combination* of reed and mouthpiece is at the center of your problem, to which you may have added some muscular contortions to try to make them produce a sound.
But I'm curious as to why you'd necessarily look for a mouthpiece specifically that would work well with soft reeds. A more successful approach might be to go to a very "middle-of-the-road" combination - a medium tip opening with a medium curve and whatever reed the manufacturer recommends for it. Vandoren is quite open about the basic measurements of its mouthpiece facings (check their website). I think you'd be better off going to one of the ones in the middle (25 players will probably make 25 different specific recommendations) and buy reeds that Vandoren recommends - probably #3 Vandorens - and see what comes out. I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with their open-tipped jazz mouthpieces, but with the basic problems you're describing, you will probably do better to avoid a specialty mouthpiece of any kind. At least until you have things under control and know what more specialized direction you want to take.
I'd also second (or third, or wherever I am in line) the advice to consider arranging for a lesson or two with an experienced player. If you have added any physical embouchure contortions to the mix, it's much easier to hear and see what needs to be corrected in person than over the Internet.
Good luck.
Karl
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Author: AP
Date: 2009-10-10 20:10
Thanks to everyone for your helpful suggestions!
I have spent today working on my embouchure and inspecting the instrument thoroughly, and I have concluded that the problem is not with the clarinet, but down to a combination of me and the mouthpiece. The latter is slightly chipped and has no brand markings, and seeing as I bought the clarinet used I suspect I ended up with whatever crappy mouthpiece they had lying around.
So what I'm going to do is visit Howarth's in London with the clarinet and a selection of reeds, see what they recommend and try a few mouthpieces. And in future, stick to guitars.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-10 20:16
Instead of the 5JB (which is way too open), try a Vandoren 5RV Lyre which has a close facing and a Vandoren 2 reed and see how you get on with that as a starting point.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-10-10 20:56
Where is the chip? Depending on where it is, that could explain the whole problem.
Karl
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-10 21:06
That's right on the tip rail, rendering your mouthpiece useless.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-10-10 22:48
Case closed. Buy a new mouthpiece. And my advice is still to go for something in the middle, not necessarily something that's meant to use soft reeds.
Karl
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