 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: orchestr
Date: 2009-10-06 22:32
I see this being a potentially big or controversial topic, but I'm curious what other people do. I have a set of Buffet R-13s, and some joints stick, some wobble, some that used to stick I had sanded down and now that it's cooling off they're starting to wobble. Some that used to wobble ended up sticking over the summer. Replacing the cork helps wobbling, but only temporarily. I found teflon tape to help with both sticking (like a lubricant) and wobbling (filling in open spaces), but I had to remove the old and reapply every week or so. I'm curious what other people do, or if anyone has suggestions for what I should do.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-06 22:54
I'd most likely replace the entire tenon cork as that's a relatively simple operation for anyone set up do this kind of thing all the time.
If the tenon is really loose in the socket without the cork, I build it up with superglue and wood dust, then turn it down to make it a good fit.
PTFE tape is fine, but it's very slippery stuff so be sure if it's the middle tenon you bind up with it, you should hold the clarinet by the lower joint as the tenon is more likely to seperate and the lower joint and bell can fall off if held only by the upper joint.
The best thing to do is have the tenon cork replaced if it is too loose.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2009-10-06 22:56
I use the teflon tape. As it compresses, I add a little more. I use this as a quick fix until I can have the cork done properly.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: stevesklar
Date: 2009-10-06 23:52
Chris always finds a use for superglue .. LOL
As Chris mentioned, two solutions
1 is the new cork
2 is measuring the socket depth and width and compare it to the tenon length and width. Usually the tenon isn't large enough to fit "nicely' into the socket. One could also use metal tenon caps but as mentioned with Chris's solution .. it looks a bit more natural
==========
Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bill28099
Date: 2009-10-07 03:23
Loose but still in good shape tenon cork. I clean it with alcohol and sand it down a bit. Apply contact cement and add another layer of the thinnest sheet cork I have. Common sense says it will never stick given all the cork grease but I've never had a second layer bonding failure. Now if I was taking the horn into a tech and saw him doing this I would never go back, but.......for a quick and dirty do it yourself it seems to work just fine.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-10-07 05:02
If there is nothing to do about the tenon because they would be stuck in the summer, then for a wobbly tenon possibly the cork is too thin, too thick or both. By too thin, it just means too thin, so it isn't gripping enough and even less after a short while. Too thick means a very thick cork was used so it compresses relatively fast, and both means that even this thick cork is not thick enough. Using even thicker cork is not a good idea.
When a tenon cork needs to be very thick, one method that I was taught and found it is excellent, is to first glue a layer of rubber-cork (aka tech-cork, gumi-cork), then glue the real tenon cork over that. The rubber-cork is harder and doesn't compress so much like the cork, so not great alone, but for a first layer it is excellent.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: RAB
Date: 2009-10-07 12:27
The cork serves as a air tight gasket between the joints.
I have used carbon fibers to build up the 2 wood shoulders on the joint and when they are almost a "perfect" (whatever perfect indicates) then I apply the cork. Music Medic has a synthetic cork joint that looks like it would not compress as much as natural cork, However I have not used that myself,
Another procedure that I have done is to machine down the tenon and make a metal cap for the bottom shoulder and a metal ring to fit over the top shoulder. However I would rather not of take wood off of a tenon and thin tit down.
Just sharing another opinion!!
RAB
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: orchestr
Date: 2009-10-07 14:14
I've heard to use dental floss, but there are others who are violently opposed to it. Also not sure if that's a 'quick fix'. My repairman said they can build up the joint with carbon fiber, and that would help. I'm not necessarily looking for a quick fix, actually the opposite: something that will finally relieve my tenon frustrations for a while! I'd rather spend that 5 minutes each week practicing than wrapping teflon.
I don't think the problem is the cork, but the shoulders. I've had super-thick cork installed in a wobbly joint, and it either still wobbles, or starts wobbling shortly thereafter. The sticking also usually happens once the joints are put together all the way, i.e. when wood is meeting wood. You can see this when you take a sticking joint appart, that usually some of the shoulder is shiny, indicating wood rubbing against wood, 'polishing' itself. I started sanding anywhere that's shiny, and that helps, but I'm worried that too much sanding will make it wobble. There's probably just a fine line I need to find in the middle that works in all seasons...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: orchestr
Date: 2009-10-07 14:16
One more thing, I also saw a Buffet clarinet recently that had cork covering the whole tenon. There were no shoulders, the cork went from one end of the tenon to the other. The guy who owned it was a repairman, so I'm sure he did it himself, but I didn't get a chance to ask him about it. Anyone heard of this?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-07 18:39
I've seen this done by bodge-it merchants to 'cure' a wobbly tenon - not good.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-10-07 19:06
Close fitting shoulders both sides of the tenon cork are essential to getting a wobble-free joint. No amount of cork will compensate for a weakness in this area.
If you are suffering seasonal changes in fit then having metal rings fitted as mentioned above is by far the most satisfactory solution.
Removing wood from the tenons or socket is a dodgy procedure and should only be done by a competent tech.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-10-08 04:13
You are right about the shiny areas, but consider that the socket might not be perfectly round, so make sure you turn the tenon in the socket completely to make sure it doesn't get stuck in any position.
>> I've had super-thick cork installed in a wobbly joint, and it
>> either still wobbles, or starts wobbling shortly thereafter.
Did you use super-thick natural cork? Maybe you missed a part of my post above, or maybe it wasn't clear, so I'll explain again. It's not surprising it it starts wobbling if you use so thick cork. You need to use thinner cork but make sure it's thick enough oveall, for example by gluing a layer of rubber-cork like is described in my previous post.
How thick was the cork you glued?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony F
Date: 2009-10-09 02:36
I've seen wobbly joints on recently recorked instruments caused by carelessness when sanding down the new cork. Instead of cork being removed evenly around the circumference it had been rubbed down heavily in a few areas only. The result was that some of the joint was barely touching and the less-sanded areas were overcompressed. A bit like a square peg in a round hole, but not so extreme. The result is a poorly supported joint with obvious shiny areas where there is heavy contact. There is then the temptation to sand the shiny areas, which just makes the situation worse. Proper finishing of the corking would have prevented this situation.
Tony F.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: lrooff
Date: 2009-10-10 04:38
In a pinch, it's worth remembering that most bagpipe players still wrap their tenons with hemp twine and get a good seal that way. Cotton thread or fine twine will also work with some cork grease.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
