 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: interd0g
Date: 2009-10-01 11:56
A professioanl crack repair job on the bell of my vintage R13 left quite a bit of 'flash' or excess adhesive projecting from the cracks inside and out.
How best to remove this and inprove the appearance without ending up with a discoloured area?
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-10-01 12:16
Use a fine needle file and go slowly. If it is very excessive you can try a razor.
To finish and remove all the little bumps, you can use the pink and white part of a 3 step nail buffer like
this one, but using the gray part will usually leave things too shiny.
I also have heard of people using blank white printer paper to finish the polishing.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-10-01 12:44
interd0g wrote:
> A professional crack repair .... left quite a bit of 'flash' or excess adhesive projecting from the cracks inside and out.
I'd hate to see what a "non-professional" crack repair means to you ...
Would you accept a car repair like that?
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-10-01 13:30
"Would you accept a car repair like that?"
Many mechanics insist that you do!! 
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Author: interd0g
Date: 2009-10-01 16:44
I also was surprised at the crudeness of this repair, and yet the craftsman in questions was one of the most mentioned on this board.
Thanks for the suggestions.
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Author: Avie
Date: 2009-10-01 21:35
Thanks for sharing your sad experience. I was always under the impression that a good clarinet crack repair would be hardly visible with the naked eye. Its a rude awakening. It seems that any nonprofessional could do as well.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-01 22:07
For the record (or maybe a guilty conscience) - it wasn't me.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-10-02 00:43
Nor was it I. Buffet players don't send me their R-13s, apparently I don't have the skill to work with those VERY SPECIAL clarinets. But at least I can sleep at night, knowing that I do proper crack repairs without excess glue oozing out everywhere......
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2009-10-02 01:41
My Bb has cracked from the top joint, through register vent down to the thumb tube and reopened since the initial crack. I would have been thrilled for it just to be a crack in my bell... no matter it looked like after.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-10-02 06:51
I see that he said "most mentioned" so it doesn't necessarily mean this repairer even post on this forum...?
By the way I learned this too. I bought from several people who were supposedly some of the most reputable on this and/or other forums. A couple of times the quality was very disapointing. I learned that no matter what you read about someone, you can never really know how reviewers are able to judge the quality.
Re the crack, the cosmetics is sometimes the longest part of the repair. If it's really a lot of glue you can start with a file, but really try not to file lower than the body, it will be hard to remove that. Then change to gradually finer files or sand paper. You just have to try to make it blend with the wood around it as much as you can. That is unless you have some tools and can make it easier/faster (for example I use a micromotor for part of this).
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Author: inhorn
Date: 2009-10-02 09:07
1. Repairing cracks in a bell is the most difficult of wood repair one can do. Matching the curvature of the bell with the insertion of a pin can be hard, but what you are describing is what i would refer to as a hack job.
2. well said, Mark Charette : Would you accept a car repair like that?
3. in my experience, bells only crack when they are dropped. I have only pined bells as a practice exercise, and then only 'junk' bells.
4. My advise, if you had brought it into my shop : Buy a new bell, or live with the cracks.
Inhorn band instrument repair is a woodwind specialty shop located in Houston, Texas, just on the edge of the Houston Heights.
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Author: BartHx
Date: 2009-10-02 17:17
If you try using a razor blade to trim the flash, be VERY careful. It is extremely easy to nick the wood next to the crack and end up with a different problem.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-10-02 22:13
You can use the heel of a reed as a scraper to remove excess glue as this won't damage the wood.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Avie
Date: 2009-10-02 22:16
Maybe the professional that worked on your buffet would be happy to solve your problem. He may have the solvent and suggest the best way to remove the type of glue used. A new bell could look worse on an older clarinet. If the tone wasnt distorted I probably would have continued playing with the crack. Good Luck.
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Author: lrooff
Date: 2009-10-03 14:05
>3. in my experience, bells only crack when they are dropped. I have only >pined bells as a practice exercise, and then only 'junk' bells.
While dropping is a major source of bell cracks, the bell on my N-series Selmer cracked while in storage, apparently due to shrinkage in the dry climate in which it was stored. Not all of us live in a humid climate... One of the clues to shrinkage, in my case, was that the lower ring on the bell got so loose that it rattled. I was tempted to donate the bell to the percussion section as a new instrument for them to enjoy.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2009-10-03 16:03
I would think that bell cracks, even complete splits, should be far easier to repair than cracks in joints, especially those that run through tone holes. I was under the impression from the comments of repair techs I respect a great deal, that the preferred method of repairing such cracks is super glue, not pinning and that such repairs generally turn out quite well -- no need to buy a new bell.
If the cosmetic outcome is important to you, I wouldn't use a file or knife or razor blade or other implement to remove the excess glue. (I've never tried the heel of a reed. Is it effective in removing dried glue, Chris?) In my experience, super glue sands pretty easily so I would start with fine sandpaper and use it for the entire job. It won't take that much more time than starting with a file or razor blade or knife or other implement and it eliminates the risk of gouging the bell.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-10-03 22:20
Nor was it I.
Perhaps it is a bit unfair now, not to state who it was.
We should not have to be defending ourselves like this. Better that the perpetrator defend himself.
Post Edited (2009-10-03 22:22)
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Author: Avie
Date: 2009-10-03 22:20
All good suggestions and remedies. Im wondering what is the best (stain, paint) or other to apply after sanding for cosmetic purposes. Just the sanded portions would not be very apealing especially on a nice clarinet.
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-10-03 23:25
1. Fill the crack with super penetrating super glue. Do not fill all the way to the surface of the wood. Let dry. (If crack goes all the way through, I use a gel super glue to keep it from flowing inside the instrument.)
2. Mix up instrument grade epoxy (Ferree's is a good source) using some of the black coloring. Mix in ground up grenadilla dust.
3. Fill remainder of crack to surface. Let harden overnight.
4. Sanding very lightly, remove any epoxy on the wood beyond the crack. Smooth the epoxy until it is even with the surface. Don't sand too hard or chunks might come off ruining the even appearance of your repair.
5. Use fine steel wool as last abrasive.
6. Apply a bit of bore oil to the wood where sanded.
Crack should be nearly invisible.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
Hand Crafted Mouthpieces
NEW Buffet bass clarinets
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-10-04 00:47
Interd0g, it might help if you could post a photo of the crack repair.
Jeff
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Author: stebinus2
Date: 2009-10-04 08:46
As for something to stain the repair area I once had excellent results with a black sharpie pen. After applying allow it to dry and then rub hard with a coarse cloth until you stop getting residue on the cloth. This was a long crack in the upper joint of an old instrument that had originally been banded at the top of the joint just below the tenon, pinned in about 5 or 6 places and then filled with what I believe was shellac. It had opened and was leaking so I gouged out a groove along the crack, filled it with a mix of super glue and grenadilla dust and then filed and sanded with gradually finer materials until it was flush and smooth. Then I applied the sparpie ink and buffed it. The repair, though it extends halfway down the joint, it very difficult to detect and the color and finish matching is excellent. In addition what is left of the stain does not come off now no matter how hard I rub it.
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Author: Avie
Date: 2009-10-04 22:24
If you have a crack that is not completely through the bore and opens from the outside when the clarinet is warmed and closes up completely when cooled, of course the crack would have to be filled with superglue when open. It has been said that this procedure could possibly put stress and cause cracks in other areas.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-10-05 21:38
And if it was not Brannen, then that probably should be stated too.
And who would that leave?
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Author: soybean
Date: 2009-10-06 07:24
Be careful with Sharpie pens, because the "black" ones actually have some blue or purple in the color as well. I have much better luck with Gibson (yes the guitar company) "Touch Up" paint pens. There is an ebony color among others. These are specifically made for fine woods. They often go on too glossy, so use a lint-free cloth to dull the paint before it dries.
There are also many colors of paint pens made by DecoColor company. These are real paint, not ink.
~Dan
(Leblanc Bliss, Buffet R13 key of A, Yamaha 250 Bb)
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