 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-09-15 21:54
For symphony orchestra, we received a piece that calls for the Eb clarinet. No one else in the clarinet section wanted to play it. They said they don't to play it all. Like it's a demonic instrument or something. :/
I decided to be the one since someone has to do it.
What's up with the Eb? Also some key points to making the Bb to Eb transition?
I don't have the Eb right now though. The symphony director said we will play that one piece at a later time, so I don't have any reason to have it.
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Author: srattle
Date: 2009-09-15 23:23
Consider yourself lucky!
Eb flat is a great instrument!!!!
Be prepared for a slightly brighter sound, and be ready to embrace it. Eb flat is all about power and character. Be ready to blast through the ensemble when needed, but also a lot of blending work when that's needed (much harder to blend than a Bb)
Reeds, I think, are a really personal thing. I know people who prefer much harder reeds for Eb, people who prefer softer reeds, and people who want Eb to feel just like their normal clarinets.
I personally like slightly softer reeds.
Get ready to enjoy it a lot!!!
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Author: Bobby McClellan
Date: 2009-09-15 23:33
Think the Eb is demonic try bringing up playing an alto Clarinet!
The Concert band I am in has efer parts in every concert we play.
I have an Eb also. I don't get to play it in the concert band I am in (already and Efer). I mainly play the Bass and contra clarinets.
Bobby M. McClellan
Flowood, MS
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-09-16 00:56
Transposing an Eb to Bb part is a problem because you have to play a 5th higher so you will be playing in the stratosphere on your Bb. The reason for writing an Eb part in the first place is to have the high notes as well as the timbre of the Eb.
It is a difficult instrument to play well because of intonation. Since it is a smaller instrument the notes are closer together making it more difficult to play in tune. It is said that the Eb has to be played with your ears. Usually when the Eb is used it is a solo instrument. Sometimes for color but often as a solo instrument too. Just so you know, every major orchestra has a clarinet player that plays the Eb clarinet. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: justme
Date: 2009-09-16 02:36
Bobby McClellan said: " Think the Eb is demonic try bringing up playing an alto Clarinet!"
I don't understand all the
stigma attached to the alto clarinet. Sure the bass clarinet has a great range ( And bass clarinet is another underrated great instrument), but the alto clarinet also has it's distinct tone and sounds good also in the notes in the upper register ( written C to F).
Here's a good video to listen to the tonal qualities of the alto clarinet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_IA8K7xK8g
Just Me
http://woodwindforum.ning.com/
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-09-16 02:53
Don't play the Eb like it's a "HIGH INSTRUMENT." That is a recipe for sharp, screechy playing and an extremely sore lip. Try to make a full, focused sound, and be confident that, if you put your fingers in the right place, the right note will come out.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2009-09-16 03:10
I agree with David, Eb is loads of fun to play. It will make you a better player too. You have to be more precise. Everything is closer together and they are usually very responsive. The slightest key bump or loss of support come right out. Control and consistency are very important, especially for intonation. Listen, listen, listen!
Sometimes you don't realize how much you can cut through. Recently our conductor turned us loose for the final few measures of a march. When we finished, he looked at me and asked; "How many Ebs are back there!"
Setup depends a lot on the instrument and mouthpiece. Some are very resistive. They want close faced mouthpieces and medium reeds. While others (my old Noblet in particular) are quite free blowing and play best with medium facings and hard reeds. At first it may be a beast, especially up high playing softly. Don't try to play it like a smaller Bb, especially in altissimo. You'll learn lots of alternate fingering above clarion C. Get to know its idiosyncracies, practice as much as your Bb/A and you'll have a great time with it.
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Author: davyd
Date: 2009-09-16 04:07
What piece will you be playing?
In my (limited) experience, when someone has needed an eefer, a lot more often than not it was for the "Candide" overture. If you have to acquire and learn a new instrument, I hope for your sake it's something more substantial than that.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-09-16 05:22
I think Mr. Palanker understated the "problem" of the Eb clarinet being one of intonation, though everything he wrote is dead on.
Even professional-level clarinetists simply cannot pick up an Eb clarinet and use all the standard fingerings in the altissimo (and sometimes in the clarion on some poorer examples of the instrument) and expect to be in tune.
In fact, there aren't even a standard set of alternate fingerings and approaches to controlling pitch that work for all eefers. Every Eb clarinet has its own set of fingerings up there, so you're not going to find the "correct" fingerings in a standard fingering chart, were there such a thing.
No matter how adept one may be playing the soprano clarinets, the eefer is a different animal, and requires serious wood-shedding to get used to its characteristics and to determine the in-tune fingerings and embouchure adjustment for various situations.
That's why it's been said to be a demon; the E-flat clarinet will eat you alive if you approach it as just a miniature soprano clarinet.
B.
P.S. The biggest problem with the instrument (IMO), and why it has a reputation as sounding "piercing" and "harsh," is that most composers think that, because it's a "high" instrument, all it's good for is playing up in the stratosphere, out on its own, instead of being one part of the voice of the reed section.
No, the eefer isn't (or shouldn't be) "all about power and character." It's just been composed for mostly that way, confined to the upper 1/3 of its range, and its unique timbre mostly ignored.
Post Edited (2009-09-16 05:27)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-09-16 05:55
Also... even though it may not seem necessary given the small stature of the instrument, be sure to use PLENTY of air. Not necessarily a lot of volume, but do keep a full, steady airstream. Intonation gets all the nastier if you start going sharp due to lack of support. I'd say that I have a better airstream on my Eb than on the lower ones, out of unforgiving necessity.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2009-09-17 11:46
Eefer is sort of like piccolo in that almost every note is heard so you are a soloist even though you don't want to be some of the time.
I hope that you have some time before the concert to get a feel for the instrument. As mentioned in other posts, the note fingerings above high D are less fixed on Eefer than on Bb. The high E is generally the worst offender although overblowing G# works well on most horns and is a very good note in jumps, including the solos in 'Candide' if you are doing that piece.
Because I play Eefer more often I have trouble going to Bb. It feels too big and the high notes aren't quite high enough. However I think working to make a pretty sound on Eefer has also improved my sound on Bb too.
Eefer guy
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Author: Adrianna
Date: 2009-09-17 15:49
I also have the opportunity to play e flat clarinet in my universities wind ensemble. However, I am having some serious difficulty with playing above a high "c". And as you guessed a good majority of my music involves the altissimo. Any suggestions as how to play up there? I have heard of alternate fingerings, but I have not come across any good fingering charts for e flat. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-09-17 16:15
Peter Hadcock's book is an excellent resource for Eb players
...GBK
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-09-17 18:45
When I got out of the West Point Band, I went back to college and played in the University of Tennessee band (under good old Uncle Jay Julian). The Eb player couldn't hack it, so I switched, making the maximum jump from BBb contra at West Point to Eb in Knoxville (and back to contra when necessary).
Playing Eb was great, and I got to play Eb in Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde with the Knoxville Symphony.
Get your own mouthpiece. The ones that come with instruments (particularly ones that belong to a band) are beat to death. Grit your teeth and spring for a hand-made one from Grabner, Fobes, Lomax, etc. Once you pay for it, you'll never miss the money, and you'll have it forever, enjoying it every time you play.
For information on how I get a problematic Leblanc to play in tune, see http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=262303&t=262226.
If you get serious about Eb, consider getting the Fobes extension, which everyone who's used it raves about. http://www.clarkwfobes.com/clarinet_EbExtension.html
In a band, remember that the principal Bb player is still the section leader. Eb is there to add sparkle to the clarinet section sound, and not to be the soloist. If you can't hear everybody else, you're playing too loud. Play to blend in. The Eb's natural brightness is all you need.
And, as GBK says, get both of Pete Hadcock's books, which have invaluable information as well as lots of alternate fingerings for high-register tuning. http://www.vcisinc.com/clarinetmusicexcerpts.htm, items C036 and C043. They're pure gold.
Ken Shaw
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Author: William
Date: 2009-09-18 16:03
As for reeds, I have always used shortened V12 Bb reeds on my Eb mouthpieces--usually either a Charles Bay custom or vintage Selmer HS*. As many others have discovered, the extra width of the Bb tip lends more focus to the effer sound--often described as "darker" or more "Bb-like".
As I have now switched to Forestone reeds for my soprano clarinets, I recently decided to try a shortened F 3.5 Bb reed on my effer and was "blown away" at how much better it played. Big sound from bottom to top with all the power anyone would ever need. Plus, the reed will not dry out sitting on the stand nor will it change during the performance. Also, with the Forestone, it seems much easier for me to play those altissimo problem notes in tune. But even if you are "dedicated" to using cane reeds, I would suggest that you try a cut down Bb reed on your Eb mouthpiece and make your own judgements regarding sound, articulation, tuning, etc. To cut the reed base, I simple use a big electrical wire crimper (wide head type). Snips it quickly and cleanly--just watch out for those fingers lol.
My specific set up is: vintage Selmer HS* mpc, Winslow sop sax ligature, Forestone 3.5 Bb reed (cut short) Yamaha 681 effer with a Fobes extension and stock barrel.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-09-18 17:28
I didn't mean to understate the problems of playing Eb clarinet. The reason I said it needs to be played by ear is because of how difficult it is to play in tune which does require finding the proper fingerings, especially in the upper register. ESP
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2009-09-18 20:01
It’s important that you approach the Eb properly from the beginning. I hope for your sake that you will be provided with either a Buffet, LeBlanc, Yamaha or at least a Noblet. During my free lance years I played a Noblet for many years and recorded Shostakovich 5 and “The Golden Age”-ballet (80 pages of pure hell) with a good result so they are fine. Beware of other brands if you want to do this seriously.
As for a mouthpiece: If you don’t know what you want out of the handmade options mentioned above a Vandoren B40 is a good mp for a start. It’s cheap to buy, you will not need ultra hard reeds on this to get a reasonable sound and it’s designed to mute the highest overtones to help you producing a darkish sound. I would recommend that you leave out regular Eb-cl reeds from the start and use Vandoren White Master from the beginning. I’m a pro and using 3-3½ and I think you can try 2-2½ for a start. White Master has a lot more wood at the bottom that is very good for high notes. The width is better suited for Eb than French Bb reeds that are too wide. Cut them off to the same length as of a regular Eb reed. For that purpose I personally use a small vise and a little metal saw.
Do the same kind of practicing you as you would on your Bb with scales and whatever but be careful as you approach the altissimo register. Use more mouthpiece inside your mouth, meaning putting your bottom teeth further down on the reed than you would on the Bb and open up and relax. Pinching on an Eb clarinet is death to your lips. As you go higher in the altissimo, imagine that you “pull” up each note from a point above the note you play instead of pushing them up from a point below. Does that make sense to you? Practice the notes in the altissimo one by one and don’t go higher until you have each note played with a full confident sound. As you go higher you can experiment using some air in your cavity. The air works as a “turbo”- cushion and is very helpful when you get hold of it. WAIT for your embouchure to develop in the high register and remember DON’T PINCH ever! As soon as you get tired, take a break. Don’t push it, you’ll regret it the next day.
Last week I played Eb in Mahler 1, tomorrow we'll do Ravel's Daphnis for the second concert this week. It's a good life being an Eb clarinet player, believe me ;-)
Good luck and have fun,
Alphie
Clarinet/E-flat clarinet RSPO
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Author: otakua
Date: 2009-09-18 23:20
omg. Silly little instrument. I did candide last year. Along with a lot of other painful peices. Is there a guide SOMEWHERE out there about these alternate altissimo fingerings you guys mention. I know they may be different, but at least a guide may help you develope your own.. right?
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-09-19 00:43
I'm not sure about eefer-specific fingerings, but Tom Ridenour published and sells a book on Clarinet Fingerings, and it's quite handy.
Jeff
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Author: Adrianna
Date: 2009-09-19 18:19
Luckily I was given a pretty decent Yamaha E flat clarinet. I can't say it is my favourite instrument, the tone just does not compare to my B flat. However, I have been given the e flat part and I just need to learn how to work with the instrument. I just had one question though. Do people find they need harder reeds on the eflat then on their b flat? I am using 3.5 Vandoreen and in the lower register it sounds thin, however I still can't get the altissimo. Will harder reeds help or hinder?
Thanks
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2009-09-19 18:48
Adrianna, read my earlier posts further up on this topic. I tried to give some good advices on how to start and what to think about concerning Eb-clarinet.
Alphie
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Author: William
Date: 2009-09-19 23:25
Also, read my posting about the use of Bb reeds on your Eb mouthpiece. Ive been playing the little effer for years and don't even own an Eb reed. I do prefer the new Forestone reed, but a cane V12 Bb reed will play better than most Eb reeds. Give it a try and see (or hear) for yourself.
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Author: moolatte
Date: 2009-09-20 23:36
I remember there being a post on here about how to cut down Bb reeds into Eb reeds. I tried searching, but I got stuck with like a 1000 results cause I didn't know what I needed to search for.
Is there a guide? Is it advisable to use my old Bb reeds that have gotten worn out to be what I use? Or new Bb reeds?
Incredibly dumb question, but I've seen a picture of size comparison of the Bb, Eb, and Ab reeds, and it looks like the person who owned them cut down an Eb reed to make an Ab reed. Why not do the same for the Eb? I go through new reeds in maybe 2 weeks, and I don't think my directors are going to be too happy if they have to order Eb reeds for me each month, so go green and recycle I say. But it doesn't apply everywhere.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-09-20 23:42
MAny players find that German cut reeds, such as VD White Masters, play wonderfully on eefers. You cut them down atte butt end of the reed, opposite the tip. Use new reeds, not ones that your Bb playing has worn out.
Jeff
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2009-09-21 15:00
moolatte, you're not reading the posts. if you had you would have found several answers to yor questions already.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2009-09-22 20:03
As good as the Hadcock book is, it does not include a fingering chart for the Eb clarinet. Rather, it suggests fingerings (altissimo) that should work well in specific particularly tricky passages in the excerpts he includes in his book. Most, if not all of his suggestions are logical applications of fingerings in the Ridenour chart. IMO, rather than searching for an Eb altissimo fingering chart, a more productive approach to altissimo fingerings for the Eb is to find a good general altissimo fingering chart, such as Tom Ridenour's or the one located here:
http://www.wfg.woodwind.org/clarinet/
and experiment to find out what works for you.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: eefer ★2017
Date: 2009-09-23 06:34
After 35 years of playing e-flat clarinet, here is what I have learned. A good mouthpiece is ESSENTIAL. A good clarinet that is properly set-up is ESSENTIAL. A well-matched barrel and bell will help tremendously to eliminate the fingering issues. The barrel must be matched to the mouthpiece and the clarinet. The bell must be matched to the lower joint and preferably have a voicing groove in it. Reeds are a matter of personal preference, but they do VERY MUCH help create *YOUR* sound when combined with *YOUR* mouthpiece. Different reeds can be used to change the colors of *YOUR* sound, as can different barrels and bells. The ONLY way to learn about what is necessary for an acceptable e-flat experience is to jump in and play one (for a few years).
I have two e-flat clarinets that I use. My usual one is a Buffet R-13 from 1978. It is padded with Valentino pads. It has a grooved cocobolo Backun bell, and either a 43 mm Backun traditional or ringless w/reed cutaway barrel. I use a Backun MOBA mouthpiece, BG Super Revelation ligature and #3 Glotin Eb reeds or #3 Rico Grand Concert Bb reeds. I use all standard clarinet fingerings on this instrument. The pitch is very stable from end to end, and the dynamic capability of this clarinet is exceptional.
I also play a Patricola rosewood e-flat clarinet from 1999. It is padded with Valentino pads. It has an un-grooved Backun rosewood bell with a resonance hole, and a traditional Backun 42mm rosewood barrell. I use a Lomax Classic mouthpiece on this clarinet with a BG Super Revelation ligature and # 3.5 traditional Vandoren Eb reeds. It requires a few non-standard fingerings in the altissimo register. This is a more in-your-face clarinet and doesn't blend as well as the Buffet. I use it when my Eb part calls for distinct personality, or if I am playing outdoors. It will stand up to a piccolo any day of the week, and has great intonation.
The above info in the previous two paragraphs are my *personal* choices for e-flat playing. The e-flat clarinet is not an instrument for the faint-at-heart. It takes real guts to play it well, and fair investment to get one in proper playing condition. It also takes a large investment of time to learn to manipulate it to sound like a sweet little angelic instrument one moment, or a Tasmanian Devil the next without assulting the ear of the listener. Get the essentials, and then lock yourself in the practice room. It's the only way to figure out what will work for you. ~ Nancy
Nancy Buckman
AACC Symphony Orchestra
Opera AACC
Early Music Society of Northern MD
(and a lot of other ensembles, too)
nebuckman@gmail.com
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Author: eac
Date: 2009-09-27 12:14
Use a wire cutter, coping saw, or best of a0l, a dremel rotary tool with cutting disc t0 cut the butt end of the reed off about 1/4 inch so that the Bb reed is the same length as an Eb reed Smooth the cut end a bit with a nail file or sand paper it it's jagged. Don' t use a used up or worn out Bb reed to cut down--you'll just make trouble for yourself. And be sure to use good air support for each and every note. An efer will amplify any lack of fundamentals. And have fun!
Liz Leckey
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-09-28 02:45
Small X-Acto back saw and the X-Acto miter box. Nice, fine teeth on the saw, and not much slop in the guides of the miter box. Cheap, accurate, and easy to carry around, too.
B.
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Author: susieray
Date: 2009-09-28 09:37
I use a bandsaw to cut down my Bb reeds, but then not everyone has a bandsaw handy.......
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