 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-09-08 04:00
I just traded my BH in on a French horn. I put my favorite BH setup on my alto clarinet and it sounded good. I wonder if a listener in a blind test could tell much difference. There's no low concert F, but also a lot fewer awkward fingerings. When would an actual basset horn be essential?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-09-08 08:55
Leblanc basset horns use the same mouthpiece and have the same bore as their alto clarinets, so there isn't much in it and I doubt a listener would be able to tell the difference.
For the low concert F, put the mouthpiece cap in the bell.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: lrooff
Date: 2009-09-08 12:28
Chris P wrote:
>
>
> For the low concert F, put the mouthpiece cap in the bell.
>
How does that work? I'm curious.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-09-08 14:17
It flattens the bell note by a semitone, though it may be a bit muffled.
Drop the cap in so the open end is in the bell, not the narrow (closed) end.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-09-08 15:15
Chris P wrote:
> It flattens the bell note by a semitone, though it may be a bit
> muffled.
>
> Drop the cap in so the open end is in the bell, not the narrow
> (closed) end.
>
I'd never thought of that, but it's just a transposing mute! There's a whole range of other objects one might try. I just got a good written D with a less muffled tone with a Vandoren B44 bass clarinet mouthpiece. This may in fact be one of the better uses for that particular piece. :-) Moreover, it seems as if the "mute" may be left in place unless you happen also to need the Eb.
I placed the mouthpiece tenon end down with the window against the bell wall toward the instrument.
Thanks,
Jim Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-09-08 17:20
I've been told that for the major makers, such as Leblanc, the alto and BH have identical bores, with the BH lower joint extended 1/2 step and the holes differently spaced. That's the only way they could afford to produce a slow-selling item like the BH. It makes sense that the same setup will work on both instruments.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2009-09-08 19:32
Good explanation , Ken. Having tried Leb and Selmer Paris alto cls et al, its my feeling that the Sel is better as a sub for a true Basset horn, due to a smaller bore, but its still played with an alto mp. I haven't tried to fit a Bb mp to it , but that might be even closer to a Sel B H's characteristic sound. Listen to some Mozart where is is often used. As to achieving the B H's lowest note, I have tried several "bell extenders", made fron plastic drink cups, getting a decent low D [alto] with the loss of the Eb. Try it, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-09-08 19:57
Hoping to navigate clear of what constitutes a "true" basset sound, I think the assertions by Chris P and Ken that the Leblanc bores and mouthpiece requirements are the same are right on. The basset is, however, proportionally shorter in the left hand section and much longer in the right. As for Selmer bassets, the one I tried out used a Bb mouthpiece. That is not to say this would be the case for all Selmer Paris bassets ever made.
Best regards,
Jim Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-09-08 22:14
The most recent Selmer basset horn I tried was a new one back in 1988 (a D series) which used a Bb mouthpiece, and I think the current ones still do.
Buffet basset horns used to use a Bb mouthpiece (Selmers are largely based on the old Buffet design, although they've been modified) but changed to using an alto mouthpiece at some point in time.
My old Selmer basset horn uses a Bb mouthpiece.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: John25
Date: 2009-09-09 19:30
What sort of music do you intend to play? Chris's trick seems a good idea, but what is the sound like? Most basset-horn pieces really feature the bottom note (e.g. bars 2 and 3 of the Backofen Quintet). You really need to have a good sonorous bottom F (concert pitch).
There are quite a few pieces where low Gb and F (concert) occur in quick succession (e.g. Mendelssohn "Concert Piece no.1", the Mozart Divertimenti, Richard Strauss). What do you do then?
I am only asking.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-09-09 20:59
You have an accomplice sitting nearby to put in/take out the makeshift low D extension.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-09-09 21:45
Not really practical Chris P, especially those moments in the Strauss Symphony and Sonatina.
Best off using a basset horn and not a alto clarinet
Peter Cigleris
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-09-10 15:55
I certainly agree that the best sub for a basset horn is a basset horn. For me the basset was a nice-to-have thing that mostly sat idle. I wrote it into clarinet choir transcriptions fairly often, but never got into "real" BH music. I'm intrigued by the degree of similarity of sound of the basset and alto, and the various tricks available to achieve a low D. Chris's idea of placing an object in the bell is quite elegant, and I'm sure a suitable timbre can be achieved with the right sort of object, e.g. a bass clarinet mouthpiece.
It seems as if it would be fairly simple to take the next step and engineer a low-D extension that would fit between the RH section and the bell. The new section would have what would now be the Eb key that would be actuated by the existing mechanism. The key on the bell would now close to sound D. A thumb key could be designed with a rod running along the bottom of the instrument. Alternatively, the key could be actuated electrically with a switch and a solenoid.
Best regards,
Jim Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-09-10 17:01
> The key on the bell would now close to sound D. A thumb key could be
> designed with a rod running along the bottom of the instrument.
> Alternatively, the key could be actuated electrically with a switch and a
> solenoid.
I'd prefer a bowden cable. Isn't the Eppelsheim bass sax octave (or add'l register) key actuated by one?
--
Ben
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-09-10 17:31
I'm not familiar with those devices, but whatever does the job would be fine. Ideally, the physical changes to the instrument would be minimized.
Regards,
Jim Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-09-11 04:24
>> I'd prefer a bowden cable. Isn't the Eppelsheim bass
>> sax octave (or add'l register) key actuated by one?
Sort of. The contrabass clarinet and bass (and lower) saxophones have an additional register/octave hole that is opearated by this cable, but it is not a regular key. From what I remember, actually it is not a key, but a rod with a hole perpendicular to it, that is opening and closing by a "thing" (maybe another type of cylindrical "thing") that goes (maybe partly) through the rod.
So a cable like this is actually a great idea if you can build it in a way that pulling (i.e. pressing the lever) will close the key. I'm not sure about that. Even the opposite of pulling the cable opening a (regular) key is not so easy I think. Maybe possible to build an extension for the low key, and some sort of guide for the cable to force its direction. I'm not sure it would work very good.
The Eppelsheim instruments also have other very interestesing and original features!
Post Edited (2009-09-11 04:30)
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