 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-09-07 01:09
Repair question. How do you get this key from sticking AND have it stay quiet?
I have tried cork, synthetic cork, bondable teflon, plastic shims, teflon tape, dense sponge foam, and reshaping the touch points themselves, but there is nothing that works right. If it is quiet then the key binds (eg. F-G). If it works smoothly then the key is noisy going from F# to E.
Is there any way to get this right?
Post Edited (2009-09-07 01:11)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-09-07 03:27
Perhaps the rod screw is loose inside the key tube, so you need to have the tube "swedged" (compressed around the rod) to reduce rocking of the key on its rod screw, which is one of the most common sources of noise. This has to be done carefully; if overdone the key will bind.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-09-07 04:55
It's not completely clear what you mean by "sticking" and "binds". If I understand correct, if you use a material that will create a smooth motion, it will be noisy when the top key is hitting the thumb key. If you use a quiet material, the linkage will "bind" when the keys are pressed i.e. there will be a delay in the return, for example because of a dent, friction, etc. Is this correct?
Quiet will always be a compromise with accruacy, but some material have a better compromise for both sides. I will sometimes use bondable teflon for a linakge like this, but only very thin, glued to another material, usually thin rubber cork or synthetic felt. These are the materials I use the most often on linkages of clarinets (sometimes with teflon and sometimes without). Bondable teflon alone is always too noisy IMO and only rarely I use that.
Adding teflon to a quieter material will always add some noise. It's possible to reduce that as much as possible, but still noisier. A very good shape of the linkage will make teflon unecessary many times. Also IMO the type of noise matters a lot, not only the amount of noise. Teflon has a more annoying noise than the other materials.
The only good synthetic cork I found is the type from Kraus and even that I never use for linkages, only for bumpers. It's not good for sliding linakges. Actually I haven't found any synthetic cork that I thought was good for linakges, and pretty much the same for all the other materials you mentioned.
Leather is not a bad suggestion. If it's very thin, maybe glued to something else (though the mateiral in that linkage should be thin anyway). I also tried another material that I got some samples from another repairer, it is leather imitation made of microfiber. It is stronger and tougher than leather, and works great for some linakges. I haven't tried it in that specific place (but should be the same).
Also very important is the shape of the linkage parts. Basically it should work without a problem when using a good material e.g. synthetic felt, which is still relatively quiet, but also accurate when it is thin. If this doesn't work, there's probably a problem in the shape of the linkage, and it becomes a matter of finding the mechanical problem and fixing it.
I hope this hlps.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-09-07 08:26
"If I understand correct, if you use a material that will create a smooth motion, it will be noisy when the top key is hitting the thumb key. If you use a quiet material, the linkage will "bind" when the keys are pressed i.e. there will be a delay in the return, for example because of a dent, friction, etc. Is this correct?"
Yes, this is what I mean.
So far, the smoothest action that I have tried is just the raw key with no material on either side. This always moves well, but it is noisy, of course.
I have tried to compress the cork with a vise or a hammer before I put it onto the key and this does not help- if the mechanism moves smoothly, then it will have noise. If it is silent, then a dent will form and it will bind eventually.
I must say that this is not only on my clarinet and I am really picky about key noise.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-09-07 09:57
If it's really not noise from the hinges (like David sugested) then try synthetic felt, probably 0.5mm thick, or maybe even 0.9mm thick (if possible, but this is probably too thick). Check both with very thin (I think it's about 0.07mm that is available) bondable teflon on it (noisier) and without if you want. If 0.5mm synthetic felt creates the dent problem then most likely there is a problem with the linkage. It should be possible to make the linakge work smoothly with this material. Noise and accuracy are pretty much the opposites and you can only find the balance that you prefer. Maybe you are expecting it to be quiter than is possible with the accuracy you want.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-09-07 11:00
"Maybe you are expecting it to be quiter than is possible with the accuracy you want."
I have been told that often in regard to trying to silence keywork.
I have devised an key adjustment that should make everything work perfectly and be silent but it involves cutting into the wood beneath the arms- Maybe I will try it on the Bundy before I slice into the Buffet. 
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2009-09-07 14:22
clarnibass wrote:
> Noise and accuracy are pretty much the opposites and you can
> only find the balance that you prefer.
Hmmmm ... I guess all those mechanical preloading and anti-backlash mechanisms found in other mechanical systems are for naught
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-09-07 15:46
>> Hmmmm ... I guess all those mechanical preloading and anti-backlash
>> mechanisms found in other mechanical systems are for naught
To clarify, I meant for the mechanism like the clarinet linakge this thread is about, in the way it is designed on a standard clarinet. Using a thicker or softer material will make it quieter but less accurate (i.e. add flexibility to the mechanism). I'm not saying it's not possible to make this linakge both quiet and accurate, even without adding/changing mechanisms. If the linakge is a good reasonably good design, it should be possible (though quiet is pobably not the same for everyone). Sometimes it is possible to improve the design without drastic changes (just change the shape).
Maybe you can explain how he can use one of those mechanisms you are talking about for the purpose of this linkage (if you have an idea I'm interested to know)?
Skygardener, what is the mechanism you made that you say will make it work good and completely silent?
Post Edited (2009-09-08 03:32)
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2009-09-07 18:56
Try fitting the cork / leather / teflon (or whatever) to the thumb ring key side of mechanism, then make sure that the lever arm it slides against is absolutely smooth. It works much better this way round.
Personally I often use a very thin cork/plastic/cork sandwich material only about 15 thou thick. I think I got mine from ferree's some years ago.
A touch of cork grease (on the very tip of the lever only) makes it operate even more smoothly.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-09-07 22:43
If I remember correctly, Brannen puts a little bead of teflon on the thumb ring side. It is a perfect slide with no binding whatsoever, of course there is a little clicking.
Not to be cheeky, but have you tried the "F#" as an "F" with the two lowest sidekeys added? I use this fingering a majority of the time - Marcellus HATED this fingering!
..............Paul Aviles
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